Ross McKay schreef:
> Jochem Maas wrote:
>
>> any idea as to whether auto-fill can recognize stuff like:
>>
>> foo[email] or email[foo] or email_foo
>> [...]
>
> AFAIK, the auto-fill form stuff works off previously entered field
> names. If a user enters their email address into a field called 'email'
> on one site, then another site asks for 'email', Firefox will oblige by
> remembering the email address(es) from previous entry.

figures, no blooming good to us then :-)

makes me think of another trick to block spam/cruft/etc from
form submissions (including double POSTs) ... set a hidden field
to a random value that session bound and usable only once ... if
the value is not present in the POST or it's not set in the session
as being valid and usable then don't accept the POST ... if the
POST is accepted then remove the value from the session.

> Thus, if every form used 'foo[email]' then yes, it should work.
>
> But most forms use 'email', so that's what Firefox remembers.
>
>> ... me I like to have my cake and eat. ;-)
>
> I've always thought cake was over-rated...

cake is a metaphor. let's imagine it means 'girls' for instance ... you with me now? ;-)

Jochem Maas wrote:

>figures, no blooming good to us then :-)

No, I wouldn't bother! (It actually p!sses me off when I have to type my
email address into a form because they've decided to pick some unique
name for the field!)

>makes me think of another trick to block spam/cruft/etc from
>form submissions (including double POSTs) ... set a hidden field
>to a random value that session bound and usable only once ... if
>the value is not present in the POST or it's not set in the session
>as being valid and usable then don't accept the POST ... if the
>POST is accepted then remove the value from the session.

Yes, your Honey Pots idea intrigues me, and I'll be stealing it, thanks!

>cake is a metaphor. let's imagine it means 'girls' for instance ...
>you with me now? ;-)

Um... nope, no idea what you mean (nodding!).

[She's about to come over and demand her coffee, must fetch ]
--
Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia
"Such a pretty girl, happy in an ugly place,
watching all the pretty people
doing lots of ugly things" - Everclear

On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:11:01 -0400, tedd wrote:
>
> http://webbytedd.com/aa/assorted-captcha/

Some of these are really cool. Assuming they are
actually working, that is...

Graphic CAPTCHA:
----------------

Error!
Reload the page!

Audio CAPTCHA:
--------------

There is nothing to click and no indication that I
should enable Flash.

And when I enter the number, I get "Sorry, you didn't make it...".

Performance CAPTCHA:
--------------------
This one actually works. Well, sort of...

Notice: Undefined index: x in
/var/www/vhosts/webbytedd.com/httpdocs/aa/assorted-captcha/index.php on
line 153

Notice: Undefined index: y in
/var/www/vhosts/webbytedd.com/httpdocs/aa/assorted-captcha/index.php on
line 154

Congratulations, you made it via Performance CAPTCHA !

Question CAPTCHA:
-----------------

Sorry, you didn't make it...

Arrow CAPTCHA:
--------------
I like this one! Except...

Notice: Undefined index: 0 in
/var/www/vhosts/webbytedd.com/httpdocs/aa/assorted-captcha/index.php on
line 190

Sorry, you didn't make it...


I also get a 404 for "/aa/assorted-captcha/a.js".

I managed 1 out of 5. What do I win?


/Nisse

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:14:39 +0200, Nisse Engström wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:11:01 -0400, tedd wrote:
>>
>> http://webbytedd.com/aa/assorted-captcha/
>
> Performance CAPTCHA:
> --------------------
> This one actually works. Well, sort of...

And maybe your code should check for a circle rather
than a square, or am I picking nits?


/Nisse

At 11:14 AM +0200 9/1/08, Nisse =?utf-8?Q?Engstr=C3=B6m?= wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:11:01 -0400, tedd wrote:
>>
>> http://webbytedd.com/aa/assorted-captcha/
>
>Some of these are really cool. Assuming they are
>actually working, that is...
>
>-snip- (bunch of errors)
>
>I managed 1 out of 5. What do I win?
>
>/Nisse

None of what you reported can be good.

I fixed the errors you spoke about except I could never get the
Graphic CAPTCHA to fail.

Also, you're supposed to click the "accessibility icon" to get the
page to speak the number.

Anything else?

Cheers,

tedd

--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com

tedd wrote:
> At 11:14 AM +0200 9/1/08, Nisse =?utf-8?Q?Engstr=C3=B6m?= wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:11:01 -0400, tedd wrote:
>>>
>>> http://webbytedd.com/aa/assorted-captcha/
>>
>> Some of these are really cool. Assuming they are
>> actually working, that is...
>>
>> -snip- (bunch of errors)
>>
>> I managed 1 out of 5. What do I win?
>>
>> /Nisse
>
> None of what you reported can be good.
>
> I fixed the errors you spoke about except I could never get the Graphic
> CAPTCHA to fail.
>
> Also, you're supposed to click the "accessibility icon" to get the page
> to speak the number.
>
> Anything else?
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd
>

why don't people just check for x/y co-ord's on an image submit instead?

Nathan Rixham wrote:
> tedd wrote:
>> At 11:14 AM +0200 9/1/08, Nisse =?utf-8?Q?Engstr=C3=B6m?= wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:11:01 -0400, tedd wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://webbytedd.com/aa/assorted-captcha/
>>>
>>> Some of these are really cool. Assuming they are
>>> actually working, that is...
>>>
>>> -snip- (bunch of errors)
>>>
>>> I managed 1 out of 5. What do I win?
>>>
>>> /Nisse
>>
>> None of what you reported can be good.
>>
>> I fixed the errors you spoke about except I could never get the
>> Graphic CAPTCHA to fail.
>>
>> Also, you're supposed to click the "accessibility icon" to get the
>> page to speak the number.
>>
>> Anything else?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> tedd
>>
>
> why don't people just check for x/y co-ord's on an image submit instead?

Not so good if you're using lynx, or if you're blind, I guess.

--
Peter Ford phone: 01580 893333
Developer fax: 01580 893399
Justcroft International Ltd., Staplehurst, Kent

> Not so good if you're using lynx, or if you're blind, I guess.

I often tell my clients the reasons for accessibility and usually i
get the answer "We don't have any blind customers so we don't care
about them". So much for fair play in the web.

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:28:27 -0400, tedd wrote:

> At 11:14 AM +0200 9/1/08, Nisse =?utf-8?Q?Engstr=C3=B6m?= wrote:
>>On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:11:01 -0400, tedd wrote:
>>>
>>> http://webbytedd.com/aa/assorted-captcha/
>>
>>Some of these are really cool. Assuming they are
>>actually working, that is...
>>
>>-snip- (bunch of errors)
>>
>>I managed 1 out of 5. What do I win?
>>
>>/Nisse
>
> None of what you reported can be good.
>
> I fixed the errors you spoke about except I could never get the
> Graphic CAPTCHA to fail.

Try it without enabled.

> Also, you're supposed to click the "accessibility icon" to get the
> page to speak the number.

I don't see it. Maybe there should be a note about enabling
Flash.


/Nisse

At 12:43 AM -0700 9/12/08, Yeti wrote:
>I often tell my clients the reasons for accessibility and usually i
>get the answer "We don't have any blind customers so we don't care
>about them".

Statements like that demonstrate ignorance more than anything else.
If they actually knew the potential the disabled market offers vs the
minor expense required to make their site accessible, then they would
realize just how shortsighted their business decisions are.

I heard the same type of ignorant rhetoric from a Car Rental, but
they didn't realize that the blind DO rent cars -- they just also
hire drivers.

This reminds me of old business practices when the environment wasn't
their concern, but now everyone is on the green bus. It's a shame
that the disabled have to wait for a similar revelation before
business realizes there's profit in it.

You know, just because they are in business does not mean that their
decisions reflect good business sense. Realize that most businesses
fail -- there are reasons for that.

Cheers,

tedd

--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com

This one time, at band camp, tedd <tedd.sperling@gmail.com> wrote:

> I fixed the errors you spoke about except I could never get the
> Graphic CAPTCHA to fail.
>
> Also, you're supposed to click the "accessibility icon" to get the
> page to speak the number.

What if the user is deaf and blind? they are denied access?

Kevin

> What if the user is deaf and blind? they are denied access?

If a user is deaf and blind, the likelihood of them using the Interweb
is very small. The likelihood of them using it alone is even smaller.

--
Richard Heyes

HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari:
http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph

On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 09:27 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote:
> > What if the user is deaf and blind? they are denied access?
>
> If a user is deaf and blind, the likelihood of them using the Interweb
> is very small. The likelihood of them using it alone is even smaller.
>
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari:
> http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph
>
Small yes, but still not zero...


Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk

At 5:37 PM +1000 9/14/08, Kevin Waterson wrote:
>This one time, at band camp, tedd <tedd.sperling@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Also, you're supposed to click the "accessibility icon" to get the
>> page to speak the number.
>
>What if the user is deaf and blind? they are denied access?
>
>Kevin

Kevin:

For deaf-blind users there are refresh-able braille displays to read
the computer screen. These braille displays are driven by JAWS and
other screen readers (each requiring braille displays drivers).

The braille displaying devices do text-to-braille translations; the
speech synthesizers do text-to-speech translations; while the screen
readers' job is to convert what they 'see' or read on the screen into
text or meaningful output to the HID for the human user.

While this may sound simple, there are other problems, namely
refresh-able braille displays cost a minimum of $1500 US and,
unfortunately, braille is not universal among all of the adult blind
population (which would also include deaf-blind users and adult onset
deaf-blind users).

As for my example (as shown below), the "Speak Key" submit button
works for the blind testers who have tested this for me. While they
have no problem with the way I've done it, none are deaf.

http://www.sperling.com/examples/captcha

It would be nice if I could get a good female voice, preferably
Asian, who would submit her speech for free distribution. All she
need do is to speak the numbers "one" though "ten" and "repeat" with
pauses between words.

Why Asian? As it turns out a female Asian voice works extremely well
for English speech recognition. I am sure that other languages have
their preferences.

Cheers,

tedd

--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com

This one time, at band camp, "Richard Heyes" <richard@php.net> wrote:

> > What if the user is deaf and blind? they are denied access?
>
> If a user is deaf and blind, the likelihood of them using the Interweb
> is very small. The likelihood of them using it alone is even smaller.

Oh my..
Although people who are deaf and blind make up a small portion of
internet users, is this a reason to deny access to them?

Kevin

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:03:59 +1000, Kevin Waterson wrote:

>Oh my..
>Although people who are deaf and blind make up a small portion of
>internet users, is this a reason to deny access to them?

Yeah, on that basis, why would anyone make sure their website was
accessible to the colourblind, users of Opera / Konqueror / Safari,
users with JavaScript turned off / filtered out, epileptics who fit at
the site of flashing banner ads, ...

But then, if you're only building websites for marketing kitch to the
mindless masses, maybe it doesn't matter who you disenfranchise.
--
Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia
"It doesn't matter if the Rock wants to go get diamond rings or not!"
- The Rock

> Oh my..
> Although people who are deaf and blind make up a small portion of
> internet users, is this a reason to deny access to them?

You could spend a lot of time making your website accessible. You
could spend an awful lot of time doing so, but it will at some point
become a waste of money.

--
Richard Heyes

HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari:
http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph

> Oh my..
> Although people who are deaf and blind make up a small portion of
> internet users, is this a reason to deny access to them?

You could spend forever trying to make your website accessible, but at
some point it will become a black hole that attracts money and time,
which doesn't represent value.

And if in your recent blog post this was referring to me - "a person
who was deaf and blind cannot use the web anyhow", I never said that.
Oh and if you're concerned at all about accessibility, stop using grey
on white.

--
Richard Heyes

HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari:
http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 09:06 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote:
> > Oh my..
> > Although people who are deaf and blind make up a small portion of
> > internet users, is this a reason to deny access to them?
>
> You could spend forever trying to make your website accessible, but at
> some point it will become a black hole that attracts money and time,
> which doesn't represent value.
>
> And if in your recent blog post this was referring to me - "a person
> who was deaf and blind cannot use the web anyhow", I never said that.
> Oh and if you're concerned at all about accessibility, stop using grey
> on white.
>
> --
> Richard Heyes
>
> HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari:
> http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph
>
The way to convince your bosses to go for accessibility is to just
explain the benefits it gets with regards to SEO. That's something they
will have heard of, and they'll be aware of how that can affect their
bottom line. Just by doing a few things that make a site more accessible
to people also makes it more accessible to search engines. It gives me a
warm glow to know that I've achieved what I set out to do, even if it
did involve conning the bosses who thought that accessibility wasn't
important.


Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk