Maybe slightly off, but this is a general PHP question :-)

I'm not a professional developer, just hobbyist at PHP. As now, when I
want to learn something new such as a new framework, it's beneficial to
build a PHP application in my free time as a learning exercise.
Sometimes the learning is not always motivation enough (especially after
the beer starts flowing). As extra motivation (above and beyond
learning) I would like to either freely distribute my app or build a
public site using my app. My problem is that I never can think of what
to build and what I can think of has or most likely has been done and is
available.

So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people
request apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track
the people that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where
people post paid development requests. Something open and
non-contractual in the spirit of open source.

The two open source projects that I have developed came from being part
of a community and answering the same support requests in the forums day
after day. It occurred to me that I could create something to do what
the users kept asking. So this would be the same idea, just more broad.

If no one knows of good site(s) like this, does anyone think it would be
beneficial? Would you use it?

Thanks!
-Shawn

[snip]
So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people
request apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track
the people that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where
people post paid development requests. Something open and
non-contractual in the spirit of open source.

The two open source projects that I have developed came from being part
of a community and answering the same support requests in the forums day

after day. It occurred to me that I could create something to do what
the users kept asking. So this would be the same idea, just more broad.

If no one knows of good site(s) like this, does anyone think it would be

beneficial? Would you use it?
[/snip]

http://sourceforge.net/index.php

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net> wrote:
> Maybe slightly off, but this is a general PHP question :-)
[snip!]
>
> So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people request
> apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track the people
> that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where people post paid
> development requests. Something open and non-contractual in the spirit of
> open source.

That depends, Shawn. Are you looking to be a part of an
established project, or to start your own? If you wanted to work with
a well-known team, I'd recommend starting with something like the
phpBB group. You can start off by writing modules and such, and if
you want, get into developing the core application itself.

To develop full applications in open source technology to someone
else's spec would make me very leery.... because there's almost a
guarantee stamped right there that says, "you're doing my work for
free, you're making me rich." And while, to you, it is in the spirit
of open source, overall it defeats the purpose of open source.

The best way to come up with an idea and build a project is to
follow these simple steps:

1.) Stop giving a damn if something similar exists. You may
build a better mousetrap. If developers always said, "no, that's
already been done," there would be just one of everything - from
open-source content management systems to full-blown operating
systems.

2.) Stop thinking about how others will use your work for now.
Be selfish and focus on yourself for a bit. This *does not* mean to
ignore security and good coding practices, or even to ignore
scalability.... only to not think about how others may accept your
work when it's complete. Think of it as doing coding only for
yourself, to make your life easier.

3.) Identify a problem that you experience yourself. For
example, say you work part-time mowing lawns in the neighborhood.
Each property pays you $5 per 100'x100' square per job, with a minimum
of $5 required. You have 29 properties of various sizes that you mow
each summer, and have always done one each day, taking the last day to
scramble and try to be sure all accounts are paid.

4.) Outline how you want your application to work for you. In
the example shown above, you might decide to have an administrative
panel for you to enter the dimensions of each property under a
different profile, with the ability to add users, and then view and
invoice those with outstanding balances. You can then either merge an
existing user-management framework (allowed by license) or write your
own (it's one of the most fundamental, simple things to do). Then you
may want to incorporate payment processing for PayPal and
Authorize.net into that so that you won't have to knock on doors or
drive to the bank.

5.) Use the application yourself for a while and work out the
initial bugs.

6.) Place the code in a package on your own server with an
explanation of what it does. Tell people who may be interested in
using your work what it is, where it is, how to get it, and how to use
it.

7.) You may even want to submit an entry to directories such
as HotScripts (http://www.hotscripts.com/) or my old favorite,
Resource Index (http://php.resourceindex.com/).

Whatever you do, though, before you step into #6 above, be sure
that you've clearly stated under which license you are distributing
your code. Most commonly, of course, will be GPL, LGPL, and BSD, but
you can use any existing license (such as Apache, PHP, MIT, etc.), or
write your own. You may even choose to license your code for
"anything, anywhere" as I do with some of mine (including all
pseudocode) by using Copyleft- or Copycenter-style licensure.

--
</Daniel P. Brown>
Ask me about:
Dedicated servers starting @ $59.99/mo., VPS starting @ $19.99/mo.,
and shared hosting starting @ $2.50/mo.
Unmanaged, managed, and fully-managed!

Jay Blanchard wrote:
> [snip]
> So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people
> request apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track
> the people that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where
> people post paid development requests. Something open and
> non-contractual in the spirit of open source.
>
> The two open source projects that I have developed came from being part
> of a community and answering the same support requests in the forums day
>
> after day. It occurred to me that I could create something to do what
> the users kept asking. So this would be the same idea, just more broad.
>
> If no one knows of good site(s) like this, does anyone think it would be
>
> beneficial? Would you use it?
> [/snip]
>
> http://sourceforge.net/index.php
>

Thanks, I use SF a lot but is exactly opposite of what I was going for.

-Shawn

[snip]
> http://sourceforge.net/index.php
>

Thanks, I use SF a lot but is exactly opposite of what I was going for.
[/snip]

My bad, I mis-read.

Daniel Brown wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net> wrote:
>> Maybe slightly off, but this is a general PHP question :-)
> [snip!]
>> So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people request
>> apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track the people
>> that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where people post paid
>> development requests. Something open and non-contractual in the spirit of
>> open source.
>
> That depends, Shawn. Are you looking to be a part of an
> established project, or to start your own? If you wanted to work with
> a well-known team, I'd recommend starting with something like the
> phpBB group. You can start off by writing modules and such, and if
> you want, get into developing the core application itself.
>
> To develop full applications in open source technology to someone
> else's spec would make me very leery.... because there's almost a
> guarantee stamped right there that says, "you're doing my work for
> free, you're making me rich." And while, to you, it is in the spirit
> of open source, overall it defeats the purpose of open source.
>
> The best way to come up with an idea and build a project is to
> follow these simple steps:
>
> 1.) Stop giving a damn if something similar exists. You may
> build a better mousetrap. If developers always said, "no, that's
> already been done," there would be just one of everything - from
> open-source content management systems to full-blown operating
> systems.
>
> 2.) Stop thinking about how others will use your work for now.
> Be selfish and focus on yourself for a bit. This *does not* mean to
> ignore security and good coding practices, or even to ignore
> scalability.... only to not think about how others may accept your
> work when it's complete. Think of it as doing coding only for
> yourself, to make your life easier.
>
> 3.) Identify a problem that you experience yourself. For
> example, say you work part-time mowing lawns in the neighborhood.
> Each property pays you $5 per 100'x100' square per job, with a minimum
> of $5 required. You have 29 properties of various sizes that you mow
> each summer, and have always done one each day, taking the last day to
> scramble and try to be sure all accounts are paid.
>
> 4.) Outline how you want your application to work for you. In
> the example shown above, you might decide to have an administrative
> panel for you to enter the dimensions of each property under a
> different profile, with the ability to add users, and then view and
> invoice those with outstanding balances. You can then either merge an
> existing user-management framework (allowed by license) or write your
> own (it's one of the most fundamental, simple things to do). Then you
> may want to incorporate payment processing for PayPal and
> Authorize.net into that so that you won't have to knock on doors or
> drive to the bank.
>
> 5.) Use the application yourself for a while and work out the
> initial bugs.
>
> 6.) Place the code in a package on your own server with an
> explanation of what it does. Tell people who may be interested in
> using your work what it is, where it is, how to get it, and how to use
> it.
>
> 7.) You may even want to submit an entry to directories such
> as HotScripts (http://www.hotscripts.com/) or my old favorite,
> Resource Index (http://php.resourceindex.com/).
>
> Whatever you do, though, before you step into #6 above, be sure
> that you've clearly stated under which license you are distributing
> your code. Most commonly, of course, will be GPL, LGPL, and BSD, but
> you can use any existing license (such as Apache, PHP, MIT, etc.), or
> write your own. You may even choose to license your code for
> "anything, anywhere" as I do with some of mine (including all
> pseudocode) by using Copyleft- or Copycenter-style licensure.
>
Thanks Dan,

Your approach is a great one and actually how I wound up with my current
two projects, one of which I forked into a more full featured and fully
supported commercial product. But those were my ideas based upon user need.

I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect others to really develop the app for
the requester. This would be an idea farm, because ideas are what I am
lacking, especially ideas that would have broad appeal. I thought maybe
others would have the same dilemma.

So instead of free code from me or other developers, I view it as
getting free ideas from others, users and seekers of the apps (free and
for cost) :-)

I'm sure that given a few weeks of free time, you and many others here,
maybe even I could've built the original myspace or facebook. But we
didn't, someone else had the idea.

Hope this makes sense. Just kind of rambling now as I'm frustrated
about not having ideas with broad appeal.


Thanks!
-Shawn

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net> wrote:
>
> Daniel Brown wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe slightly off, but this is a general PHP question :-)
> > >
> > [snip!]
> >
> > > So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people
> request
> > > apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track the
> people
> > > that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where people post paid
> > > development requests. Something open and non-contractual in the spirit
> of
> > > open source.
> > >
> >
> > That depends, Shawn. Are you looking to be a part of an
> > established project, or to start your own? If you wanted to work with
> > a well-known team, I'd recommend starting with something like the
> > phpBB group. You can start off by writing modules and such, and if
> > you want, get into developing the core application itself.
> >
> > To develop full applications in open source technology to someone
> > else's spec would make me very leery.... because there's almost a
> > guarantee stamped right there that says, "you're doing my work for
> > free, you're making me rich." And while, to you, it is in the spirit
> > of open source, overall it defeats the purpose of open source.
> >
> > The best way to come up with an idea and build a project is to
> > follow these simple steps:
> >
> > 1.) Stop giving a damn if something similar exists. You may
> > build a better mousetrap. If developers always said, "no, that's
> > already been done," there would be just one of everything - from
> > open-source content management systems to full-blown operating
> > systems.
> >
> > 2.) Stop thinking about how others will use your work for now.
> > Be selfish and focus on yourself for a bit. This *does not* mean to
> > ignore security and good coding practices, or even to ignore
> > scalability.... only to not think about how others may accept your
> > work when it's complete. Think of it as doing coding only for
> > yourself, to make your life easier.
> >
> > 3.) Identify a problem that you experience yourself. For
> > example, say you work part-time mowing lawns in the neighborhood.
> > Each property pays you $5 per 100'x100' square per job, with a minimum
> > of $5 required. You have 29 properties of various sizes that you mow
> > each summer, and have always done one each day, taking the last day to
> > scramble and try to be sure all accounts are paid.
> >
> > 4.) Outline how you want your application to work for you. In
> > the example shown above, you might decide to have an administrative
> > panel for you to enter the dimensions of each property under a
> > different profile, with the ability to add users, and then view and
> > invoice those with outstanding balances. You can then either merge an
> > existing user-management framework (allowed by license) or write your
> > own (it's one of the most fundamental, simple things to do). Then you
> > may want to incorporate payment processing for PayPal and
> > Authorize.net into that so that you won't have to knock on doors or
> > drive to the bank.
> >
> > 5.) Use the application yourself for a while and work out the
> > initial bugs.
> >
> > 6.) Place the code in a package on your own server with an
> > explanation of what it does. Tell people who may be interested in
> > using your work what it is, where it is, how to get it, and how to use
> > it.
> >
> > 7.) You may even want to submit an entry to directories such
> > as HotScripts (http://www.hotscripts.com/) or my old favorite,
> > Resource Index (http://php.resourceindex.com/).
> >
> > Whatever you do, though, before you step into #6 above, be sure
> > that you've clearly stated under which license you are distributing
> > your code. Most commonly, of course, will be GPL, LGPL, and BSD, but
> > you can use any existing license (such as Apache, PHP, MIT, etc.), or
> > write your own. You may even choose to license your code for
> > "anything, anywhere" as I do with some of mine (including all
> > pseudocode) by using Copyleft- or Copycenter-style licensure.
> >
> >
> Thanks Dan,
>
> Your approach is a great one and actually how I wound up with my current
> two projects, one of which I forked into a more full featured and fully
> supported commercial product. But those were my ideas based upon user need.
>
> I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect others to really develop the app for the
> requester. This would be an idea farm, because ideas are what I am lacking,
> especially ideas that would have broad appeal. I thought maybe others would
> have the same dilemma.
>
> So instead of free code from me or other developers, I view it as getting
> free ideas from others, users and seekers of the apps (free and for cost)
> :-)
>
> I'm sure that given a few weeks of free time, you and many others here,
> maybe even I could've built the original myspace or facebook. But we
> didn't, someone else had the idea.
>
> Hope this makes sense. Just kind of rambling now as I'm frustrated about
> not having ideas with broad appeal.

Oh, what you're looking for is a think tank. I'd been trying to
find people in my area to get together and do the same thing. No such
luck around here, but you may have luck in your local area. Working
offline with people, when you can bounce ideas off of one-another
while doing something else, gets the creative juices flowing more,
because you're not focused on saying, "okay, we need to come up with
an idea."

--
</Daniel P. Brown>
Ask me about:
Dedicated servers starting @ $59.99/mo., VPS starting @ $19.99/mo.,
and shared hosting starting @ $2.50/mo.
Unmanaged, managed, and fully-managed!

Daniel Brown wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net> wrote:
>> Daniel Brown wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net>
>> wrote:
>>>> Maybe slightly off, but this is a general PHP question :-)
>>>>
>>> [snip!]
>>>
>>>> So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people
>> request
>>>> apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track the
>> people
>>>> that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where people post paid
>>>> development requests. Something open and non-contractual in the spirit
>> of
>>>> open source.
>>>>
>>> That depends, Shawn. Are you looking to be a part of an
>>> established project, or to start your own? If you wanted to work with
>>> a well-known team, I'd recommend starting with something like the
>>> phpBB group. You can start off by writing modules and such, and if
>>> you want, get into developing the core application itself.
>>>
>>> To develop full applications in open source technology to someone
>>> else's spec would make me very leery.... because there's almost a
>>> guarantee stamped right there that says, "you're doing my work for
>>> free, you're making me rich." And while, to you, it is in the spirit
>>> of open source, overall it defeats the purpose of open source.
>>>
>>> The best way to come up with an idea and build a project is to
>>> follow these simple steps:
>>>
>>> 1.) Stop giving a damn if something similar exists. You may
>>> build a better mousetrap. If developers always said, "no, that's
>>> already been done," there would be just one of everything - from
>>> open-source content management systems to full-blown operating
>>> systems.
>>>
>>> 2.) Stop thinking about how others will use your work for now.
>>> Be selfish and focus on yourself for a bit. This *does not* mean to
>>> ignore security and good coding practices, or even to ignore
>>> scalability.... only to not think about how others may accept your
>>> work when it's complete. Think of it as doing coding only for
>>> yourself, to make your life easier.
>>>
>>> 3.) Identify a problem that you experience yourself. For
>>> example, say you work part-time mowing lawns in the neighborhood.
>>> Each property pays you $5 per 100'x100' square per job, with a minimum
>>> of $5 required. You have 29 properties of various sizes that you mow
>>> each summer, and have always done one each day, taking the last day to
>>> scramble and try to be sure all accounts are paid.
>>>
>>> 4.) Outline how you want your application to work for you. In
>>> the example shown above, you might decide to have an administrative
>>> panel for you to enter the dimensions of each property under a
>>> different profile, with the ability to add users, and then view and
>>> invoice those with outstanding balances. You can then either merge an
>>> existing user-management framework (allowed by license) or write your
>>> own (it's one of the most fundamental, simple things to do). Then you
>>> may want to incorporate payment processing for PayPal and
>>> Authorize.net into that so that you won't have to knock on doors or
>>> drive to the bank.
>>>
>>> 5.) Use the application yourself for a while and work out the
>>> initial bugs.
>>>
>>> 6.) Place the code in a package on your own server with an
>>> explanation of what it does. Tell people who may be interested in
>>> using your work what it is, where it is, how to get it, and how to use
>>> it.
>>>
>>> 7.) You may even want to submit an entry to directories such
>>> as HotScripts (http://www.hotscripts.com/) or my old favorite,
>>> Resource Index (http://php.resourceindex.com/).
>>>
>>> Whatever you do, though, before you step into #6 above, be sure
>>> that you've clearly stated under which license you are distributing
>>> your code. Most commonly, of course, will be GPL, LGPL, and BSD, but
>>> you can use any existing license (such as Apache, PHP, MIT, etc.), or
>>> write your own. You may even choose to license your code for
>>> "anything, anywhere" as I do with some of mine (including all
>>> pseudocode) by using Copyleft- or Copycenter-style licensure.
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks Dan,
>>
>> Your approach is a great one and actually how I wound up with my current
>> two projects, one of which I forked into a more full featured and fully
>> supported commercial product. But those were my ideas based upon user need.
>>
>> I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect others to really develop the app for the
>> requester. This would be an idea farm, because ideas are what I am lacking,
>> especially ideas that would have broad appeal. I thought maybe others would
>> have the same dilemma.
>>
>> So instead of free code from me or other developers, I view it as getting
>> free ideas from others, users and seekers of the apps (free and for cost)
>> :-)
>>
>> I'm sure that given a few weeks of free time, you and many others here,
>> maybe even I could've built the original myspace or facebook. But we
>> didn't, someone else had the idea.
>>
>> Hope this makes sense. Just kind of rambling now as I'm frustrated about
>> not having ideas with broad appeal.
>
> Oh, what you're looking for is a think tank. I'd been trying to
> find people in my area to get together and do the same thing. No such
> luck around here, but you may have luck in your local area. Working
> offline with people, when you can bounce ideas off of one-another
> while doing something else, gets the creative juices flowing more,
> because you're not focused on saying, "okay, we need to come up with
> an idea."
>
Bingo! Except I was hoping that the end users of the app or site would
be the think tank, Internet wide. See, the users are not thinking, they
know what they want and they google for it or look on sf or hotscripts.
So when they can't find it, that's the idea! Better if you can
determine that many users have searched in vain or are struggling to
find this particular app or site, etc... Then you know that if you
develop it it will have some broad appeal. Am I making sense yet?

-Shawn

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net> wrote:
>
> Daniel Brown wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Daniel Brown wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net>
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Maybe slightly off, but this is a general PHP question :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > [snip!]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > request
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track the
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > people
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where people post
> paid
> > > > > development requests. Something open and non-contractual in the
> spirit
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > of
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > open source.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > That depends, Shawn. Are you looking to be a part of an
> > > > established project, or to start your own? If you wanted to work with
> > > > a well-known team, I'd recommend starting with something like the
> > > > phpBB group. You can start off by writing modules and such, and if
> > > > you want, get into developing the core application itself.
> > > >
> > > > To develop full applications in open source technology to someone
> > > > else's spec would make me very leery.... because there's almost a
> > > > guarantee stamped right there that says, "you're doing my work for
> > > > free, you're making me rich." And while, to you, it is in the spirit
> > > > of open source, overall it defeats the purpose of open source.
> > > >
> > > > The best way to come up with an idea and build a project is to
> > > > follow these simple steps:
> > > >
> > > > 1.) Stop giving a damn if something similar exists. You may
> > > > build a better mousetrap. If developers always said, "no, that's
> > > > already been done," there would be just one of everything - from
> > > > open-source content management systems to full-blown operating
> > > > systems.
> > > >
> > > > 2.) Stop thinking about how others will use your work for now.
> > > > Be selfish and focus on yourself for a bit. This *does not* mean to
> > > > ignore security and good coding practices, or even to ignore
> > > > scalability.... only to not think about how others may accept your
> > > > work when it's complete. Think of it as doing coding only for
> > > > yourself, to make your life easier.
> > > >
> > > > 3.) Identify a problem that you experience yourself. For
> > > > example, say you work part-time mowing lawns in the neighborhood.
> > > > Each property pays you $5 per 100'x100' square per job, with a minimum
> > > > of $5 required. You have 29 properties of various sizes that you mow
> > > > each summer, and have always done one each day, taking the last day to
> > > > scramble and try to be sure all accounts are paid.
> > > >
> > > > 4.) Outline how you want your application to work for you. In
> > > > the example shown above, you might decide to have an administrative
> > > > panel for you to enter the dimensions of each property under a
> > > > different profile, with the ability to add users, and then view and
> > > > invoice those with outstanding balances. You can then either merge an
> > > > existing user-management framework (allowed by license) or write your
> > > > own (it's one of the most fundamental, simple things to do). Then you
> > > > may want to incorporate payment processing for PayPal and
> > > > Authorize.net into that so that you won't have to knock on doors or
> > > > drive to the bank.
> > > >
> > > > 5.) Use the application yourself for a while and work out the
> > > > initial bugs.
> > > >
> > > > 6.) Place the code in a package on your own server with an
> > > > explanation of what it does. Tell people who may be interested in
> > > > using your work what it is, where it is, how to get it, and how to use
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > 7.) You may even want to submit an entry to directories such
> > > > as HotScripts (http://www.hotscripts.com/) or my old favorite,
> > > > Resource Index (http://php.resourceindex.com/).
> > > >
> > > > Whatever you do, though, before you step into #6 above, be sure
> > > > that you've clearly stated under which license you are distributing
> > > > your code. Most commonly, of course, will be GPL, LGPL, and BSD, but
> > > > you can use any existing license (such as Apache, PHP, MIT, etc.), or
> > > > write your own. You may even choose to license your code for
> > > > "anything, anywhere" as I do with some of mine (including all
> > > > pseudocode) by using Copyleft- or Copycenter-style licensure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Thanks Dan,
> > >
> > > Your approach is a great one and actually how I wound up with my
> current
> > > two projects, one of which I forked into a more full featured and fully
> > > supported commercial product. But those were my ideas based upon user
> need.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect others to really develop the app for
> the
> > > requester. This would be an idea farm, because ideas are what I am
> lacking,
> > > especially ideas that would have broad appeal. I thought maybe others
> would
> > > have the same dilemma.
> > >
> > > So instead of free code from me or other developers, I view it as
> getting
> > > free ideas from others, users and seekers of the apps (free and for
> cost)
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > I'm sure that given a few weeks of free time, you and many others here,
> > > maybe even I could've built the original myspace or facebook. But we
> > > didn't, someone else had the idea.
> > >
> > > Hope this makes sense. Just kind of rambling now as I'm frustrated
> about
> > > not having ideas with broad appeal.
> > >
> >
> > Oh, what you're looking for is a think tank. I'd been trying to
> > find people in my area to get together and do the same thing. No such
> > luck around here, but you may have luck in your local area. Working
> > offline with people, when you can bounce ideas off of one-another
> > while doing something else, gets the creative juices flowing more,
> > because you're not focused on saying, "okay, we need to come up with
> > an idea."
> >
> >
> Bingo! Except I was hoping that the end users of the app or site would be
> the think tank, Internet wide. See, the users are not thinking, they know
> what they want and they google for it or look on sf or hotscripts. So when
> they can't find it, that's the idea! Better if you can determine that many
> users have searched in vain or are struggling to find this particular app or
> site, etc... Then you know that if you develop it it will have some broad
> appeal. Am I making sense yet?
>
> -Shawn

Sounds to me like you already have an idea.

Andrew

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Andrew Ballard <aballard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds to me like you already have an idea.

That's what I was going to say. Shawn, the thing you're looking
for is your idea.

Are we making sense yet? ;-P

--
</Daniel P. Brown>
Ask me about:
Dedicated servers starting @ $59.99/mo., VPS starting @ $19.99/mo.,
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Andrew Ballard wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net> wrote:
>> Daniel Brown wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net>
>> wrote:
>>>> Daniel Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Shawn McKenzie <nospam@mckenzies.net>
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe slightly off, but this is a general PHP question :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> [snip!]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> So to my question: does anyone know of a site or forum where people
>>>>>>
>>>> request
>>>>
>>>>>> apps or sites to be built and then it can be voted on to track the
>>>>>>
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>>>> that are interested? I'm not talking about sites where people post
>> paid
>>>>>> development requests. Something open and non-contractual in the
>> spirit
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>>> open source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> That depends, Shawn. Are you looking to be a part of an
>>>>> established project, or to start your own? If you wanted to work with
>>>>> a well-known team, I'd recommend starting with something like the
>>>>> phpBB group. You can start off by writing modules and such, and if
>>>>> you want, get into developing the core application itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> To develop full applications in open source technology to someone
>>>>> else's spec would make me very leery.... because there's almost a
>>>>> guarantee stamped right there that says, "you're doing my work for
>>>>> free, you're making me rich." And while, to you, it is in the spirit
>>>>> of open source, overall it defeats the purpose of open source.
>>>>>
>>>>> The best way to come up with an idea and build a project is to
>>>>> follow these simple steps:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.) Stop giving a damn if something similar exists. You may
>>>>> build a better mousetrap. If developers always said, "no, that's
>>>>> already been done," there would be just one of everything - from
>>>>> open-source content management systems to full-blown operating
>>>>> systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.) Stop thinking about how others will use your work for now.
>>>>> Be selfish and focus on yourself for a bit. This *does not* mean to
>>>>> ignore security and good coding practices, or even to ignore
>>>>> scalability.... only to not think about how others may accept your
>>>>> work when it's complete. Think of it as doing coding only for
>>>>> yourself, to make your life easier.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.) Identify a problem that you experience yourself. For
>>>>> example, say you work part-time mowing lawns in the neighborhood.
>>>>> Each property pays you $5 per 100'x100' square per job, with a minimum
>>>>> of $5 required. You have 29 properties of various sizes that you mow
>>>>> each summer, and have always done one each day, taking the last day to
>>>>> scramble and try to be sure all accounts are paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4.) Outline how you want your application to work for you. In
>>>>> the example shown above, you might decide to have an administrative
>>>>> panel for you to enter the dimensions of each property under a
>>>>> different profile, with the ability to add users, and then view and
>>>>> invoice those with outstanding balances. You can then either merge an
>>>>> existing user-management framework (allowed by license) or write your
>>>>> own (it's one of the most fundamental, simple things to do). Then you
>>>>> may want to incorporate payment processing for PayPal and
>>>>> Authorize.net into that so that you won't have to knock on doors or
>>>>> drive to the bank.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5.) Use the application yourself for a while and work out the
>>>>> initial bugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> 6.) Place the code in a package on your own server with an
>>>>> explanation of what it does. Tell people who may be interested in
>>>>> using your work what it is, where it is, how to get it, and how to use
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7.) You may even want to submit an entry to directories such
>>>>> as HotScripts (http://www.hotscripts.com/) or my old favorite,
>>>>> Resource Index (http://php.resourceindex.com/).
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever you do, though, before you step into #6 above, be sure
>>>>> that you've clearly stated under which license you are distributing
>>>>> your code. Most commonly, of course, will be GPL, LGPL, and BSD, but
>>>>> you can use any existing license (such as Apache, PHP, MIT, etc.), or
>>>>> write your own. You may even choose to license your code for
>>>>> "anything, anywhere" as I do with some of mine (including all
>>>>> pseudocode) by using Copyleft- or Copycenter-style licensure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks Dan,
>>>>
>>>> Your approach is a great one and actually how I wound up with my
>> current
>>>> two projects, one of which I forked into a more full featured and fully
>>>> supported commercial product. But those were my ideas based upon user
>> need.
>>>> I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect others to really develop the app for
>> the
>>>> requester. This would be an idea farm, because ideas are what I am
>> lacking,
>>>> especially ideas that would have broad appeal. I thought maybe others
>> would
>>>> have the same dilemma.
>>>>
>>>> So instead of free code from me or other developers, I view it as
>> getting
>>>> free ideas from others, users and seekers of the apps (free and for
>> cost)
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure that given a few weeks of free time, you and many others here,
>>>> maybe even I could've built the original myspace or facebook. But we
>>>> didn't, someone else had the idea.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this makes sense. Just kind of rambling now as I'm frustrated
>> about
>>>> not having ideas with broad appeal.
>>>>
>>> Oh, what you're looking for is a think tank. I'd been trying to
>>> find people in my area to get together and do the same thing. No such
>>> luck around here, but you may have luck in your local area. Working
>>> offline with people, when you can bounce ideas off of one-another
>>> while doing something else, gets the creative juices flowing more,
>>> because you're not focused on saying, "okay, we need to come up with
>>> an idea."
>>>
>>>
>> Bingo! Except I was hoping that the end users of the app or site would be
>> the think tank, Internet wide. See, the users are not thinking, they know
>> what they want and they google for it or look on sf or hotscripts. So when
>> they can't find it, that's the idea! Better if you can determine that many
>> users have searched in vain or are struggling to find this particular app or
>> site, etc... Then you know that if you develop it it will have some broad
>> appeal. Am I making sense yet?
>>
>> -Shawn
>
> Sounds to me like you already have an idea.
>
> Andrew
Hmmm... Yes.

I mean:

<?php

echo "<h1>"
.."Yes"
.."</h1>";

?>

That would be a pretty interesting app to make. If you actually followed
Osborn's Brainstorming technique then you should be able to develop a pretty
cool real-time think tank where developers work in a sort of chat room but
with a place to post common code, with markup, share a virtual whiteboard,
etc.

Could be cool.

- Dan


> Oh, what you're looking for is a think tank. I'd been trying to
> find people in my area to get together and do the same thing. No such
> luck around here, but you may have luck in your local area. Working
> offline with people, when you can bounce ideas off of one-another
> while doing something else, gets the creative juices flowing more,
> because you're not focused on saying, "okay, we need to come up with
> an idea."
>
> --
> </Daniel P. Brown>
> Ask me about:
> Dedicated servers starting @ $59.99/mo., VPS starting @ $19.99/mo.,
> and shared hosting starting @ $2.50/mo.
> Unmanaged, managed, and fully-managed!

Dan wrote:
> That would be a pretty interesting app to make. If you actually
> followed Osborn's Brainstorming technique then you should be able to
> develop a pretty cool real-time think tank where developers work in a
> sort of chat room but with a place to post common code, with markup,
> share a virtual whiteboard, etc.
>
> Could be cool.
>
> - Dan
>
>
>> Oh, what you're looking for is a think tank. I'd been trying to
>> find people in my area to get together and do the same thing. No such
>> luck around here, but you may have luck in your local area. Working
>> offline with people, when you can bounce ideas off of one-another
>> while doing something else, gets the creative juices flowing more,
>> because you're not focused on saying, "okay, we need to come up with
>> an idea."
>>
>> --
>> </Daniel P. Brown>
>> Ask me about:
>> Dedicated servers starting @ $59.99/mo., VPS starting @ $19.99/mo.,
>> and shared hosting starting @ $2.50/mo.
>> Unmanaged, managed, and fully-managed!
>
Well, I have my idea to do the site to /collect the brainstorming.
But that probably won't be my coding project, as this seems to me to be
just a good forum with polls, for which several good ones already exist.

Maybe I use those to build the site and then the ideas come forth?

-Shawn

Shawn McKenzie wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> That would be a pretty interesting app to make. If you actually
>> followed Osborn's Brainstorming technique then you should be able to
>> develop a pretty cool real-time think tank where developers work in a
>> sort of chat room but with a place to post common code, with markup,
>> share a virtual whiteboard, etc.
>>
>> Could be cool.
>>
>> - Dan
>>
>>
>>> Oh, what you're looking for is a think tank. I'd been trying to
>>> find people in my area to get together and do the same thing. No such
>>> luck around here, but you may have luck in your local area. Working
>>> offline with people, when you can bounce ideas off of one-another
>>> while doing something else, gets the creative juices flowing more,
>>> because you're not focused on saying, "okay, we need to come up with
>>> an idea."
>>>
>>> --
>>> </Daniel P. Brown>
>>> Ask me about:
>>> Dedicated servers starting @ $59.99/mo., VPS starting @ $19.99/mo.,
>>> and shared hosting starting @ $2.50/mo.
>>> Unmanaged, managed, and fully-managed!
>>
> Well, I have my idea to do the site to /collect the brainstorming.
> But that probably won't be my coding project, as this seems to me to be
> just a good forum with polls, for which several good ones already exist.
>
> Maybe I use those to build the site and then the ideas come forth?
>
> -Shawn

Sorry, I meant:

<?php

echo "
Maybe
I
use
those
to
build
the
site
and
then
the
ideas
come
forth?
\n
C'mon Friday!!!";

?>