Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
for me.

http://pear.php.net

Thanks.

--
Richard Heyes
http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk

Knowledge Base and desk software for £299pa hosted for you -
no installation, no maintenance, new features automatic and free

Richard Heyes schreef:
> Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
> for me.

firefox not an option? or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)

>
> http://pear.php.net
>
> Thanks.
>

On Jan 31, 2008 7:33 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> Richard Heyes schreef:
> > Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
> > for me.
>
> firefox not an option? or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>
> >
> > http://pear.php.net
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
>
> --
>
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

IE8 passes Acid2.

Eric Butera schreef:
> On Jan 31, 2008 7:33 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
>> Richard Heyes schreef:
>>> Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
>>> for me.
>> firefox not an option? or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>>
>>> http://pear.php.net
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> --
>>
>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>>
>
> IE8 passes Acid2.

a, it's not out.
b, all that was said was it does - is there proof? (screenshot doesn't count).
c, they also want to force developers to include extra meta tags to force IE8 to run in
strict valdation mode ... otherwise it will run using the old parser ... or something like
that.
d, it's liable to be more to do with EU lawsuits than actually giving a hoot about
stds compliance of any sort.

http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/0...ersion_switch/

>

> firefox not an option?

Nope.

> or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)

Strange, IE has been working fine for me for the last eight years...

--
Richard Heyes
http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk

Knowledge Base and desk software for £299pa hosted for you -
no installation, no maintenance, new features automatic and free

On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 14:35 +0000, Richard Heyes wrote:
> > firefox not an option?
>
> Nope.
>
> > or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>
> Strange, IE has been working fine for me for the last eight years...

I can see your point. If all you know is subpar then subpar works fine.

Cheers,
Rob.
--
..------------------------------------------------------------.
| InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com |
:------------------------------------------------------------:
| An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting |
| a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services |
| such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn |
| also provides an extremely flexible architecture for |
| creating re-usable components quickly and easily. |
`------------------------------------------------------------'

On Jan 31, 2008 9:27 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> Eric Butera schreef:
>
> > On Jan 31, 2008 7:33 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> >> Richard Heyes schreef:
> >>> Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
> >>> for me.
> >> firefox not an option? or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
> >>
> >>> http://pear.php.net
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >> --
> >>
> >> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> > IE8 passes Acid2.
>
> a, it's not out.
> b, all that was said was it does - is there proof? (screenshot doesn't count).
> c, they also want to force developers to include extra meta tags to force IE8 to run in
> strict valdation mode ... otherwise it will run using the old parser ... or something like
> that.
> d, it's liable to be more to do with EU lawsuits than actually giving a hoot about
> stds compliance of any sort.
>
> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/0...ersion_switch/
>
> >
>
>

I'm up to date on the situation, thanks!

I just had to throw that in there because you said Firefox like it is
the best browser. I use Firefox with NoScript when I'm browsing the
web, but it is by no means the "best" browser. Safari & Opera have
"better" renderers and do it faster. I'm not talking about the
Mozilla engine though because Camino fairly decent. It's just all
that chrome bloat really makes me sick.

Eric Butera schreef:
> On Jan 31, 2008 9:27 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
>> Eric Butera schreef:
>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2008 7:33 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
>>>> Richard Heyes schreef:
>>>>> Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
>>>>> for me.
>>>> firefox not an option? or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> http://pear.php.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>> IE8 passes Acid2.
>> a, it's not out.
>> b, all that was said was it does - is there proof? (screenshot doesn't count).
>> c, they also want to force developers to include extra meta tags to force IE8 to run in
>> strict valdation mode ... otherwise it will run using the old parser ... or something like
>> that.
>> d, it's liable to be more to do with EU lawsuits than actually giving a hoot about
>> stds compliance of any sort.
>>
>> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/0...ersion_switch/
>>
>>
>
> I'm up to date on the situation, thanks!
>
> I just had to throw that in there because you said Firefox like it is
> the best browser.

no that's your interpretation. I merely implied firefox was better than IE.
and if your a webdeveloper then atm it is the best browser for one simple reason - firebug.

> I use Firefox with NoScript when I'm browsing the

bully for you. given that this is the world of web2.0 I'd imagine your
browsing is rather limited. it's also masochistic given that you apparently
choose to use an inferior product (as per your own opinion)

> web, but it is by no means the "best" browser. Safari & Opera have
> "better" renderers and do it faster.

ah so my supposed opinion needs to take a back seat to your "better" opinion,
no renderer is perfect. and they're all slightly different. let's not forget
that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera and Safari is only used by MacHeads
(which account for about 0.1% of the population) - recommending firefox is mostly about
educating Joe Average to the possiblities of an alternative that is used by more than
5 people already.

> I'm not talking about the
> Mozilla engine though because Camino fairly decent. It's just all
> that chrome bloat really makes me sick.

then go to bed.

>

Richard Heyes schreef:
>> firefox not an option?
>
> Nope.
>
> > or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>
> Strange, IE has been working fine for me for the last eight years...

that's the kind of thing people say just after they hear they have prostrate cancer ;-)

seriously though - why is FF (or any other browser) not an option? your
a web developer, I would imagine you should be running a complete arsenal of
different browsers as part of the job, no?

and then there's the question as to why you don't upgrade to IE7. or maybe
rebuild the windows machine in question (hey it wouldn't be the first time something
like this was ed by a clean install right?)


>

On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:14 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
> let's not forget that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera

Please back up that st-ass-tistic please. Methinks you reached around
and pulled it out of your lightless nether regions.

Cheers,
Rob.
--
..------------------------------------------------------------.
| InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com |
:------------------------------------------------------------:
| An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting |
| a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services |
| such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn |
| also provides an extremely flexible architecture for |
| creating re-usable components quickly and easily. |
`------------------------------------------------------------'

Jochem Maas wrote:
> Richard Heyes schreef:
>>> firefox not an option?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> > or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>>
>> Strange, IE has been working fine for me for the last eight years...
>
> that's the kind of thing people say just after they hear they have
> prostrate cancer ;-)

Lol.

> seriously though - why is FF (or any other browser) not an option?

I suppose it is, but I like Internet Explorer. Have done for ages.

> your
> a web developer, I would imagine you should be running a complete
> arsenal of
> different browsers as part of the job, no?

Yes. MSIE, Firefox, Opera etc.

> and then there's the question as to why you don't upgrade to IE7. or maybe
> rebuild the windows machine in question (hey it wouldn't be the first
> time something
> like this was ed by a clean install right?)

I don't like the IE7 interface, in particular the font smoothing thing.
And besides, I can't be arsed... :-)

--
Richard Heyes
http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk

Knowledge Base and desk software for £299pa hosted for you -
no installation, no maintenance, new features automatic and free

Robert Cummings wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:14 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
>> let's not forget that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera
>
> Please back up that st-ass-tistic please. Methinks you reached around
> and pulled it out of your lightless nether regions.

I wouldn't say nobody, but certainly it's a rarity.
http://www.thecounter.com reports Opera as having 1% of the market - 1%
isn't exactly a lot.

--
Richard Heyes
http://www.websupportsolutions.co.uk

Knowledge Base and desk software for £299pa hosted for you -
no installation, no maintenance, new features automatic and free

On Jan 31, 2008 11:14 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> Eric Butera schreef:
> > On Jan 31, 2008 9:27 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> >> Eric Butera schreef:
> >>
> >>> On Jan 31, 2008 7:33 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> >>>> Richard Heyes schreef:
> >>>>> Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
> >>>>> for me.
> >>>> firefox not an option? or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>>> http://pear.php.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> >>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> IE8 passes Acid2.
> >> a, it's not out.
> >> b, all that was said was it does - is there proof? (screenshot doesn't count).
> >> c, they also want to force developers to include extra meta tags to force IE8 to run in
> >> strict valdation mode ... otherwise it will run using the old parser ... or something like
> >> that.
> >> d, it's liable to be more to do with EU lawsuits than actually giving a hoot about
> >> stds compliance of any sort.
> >>
> >> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/0...ersion_switch/
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I'm up to date on the situation, thanks!
> >
> > I just had to throw that in there because you said Firefox like it is
> > the best browser.
>
> no that's your interpretation. I merely implied firefox was better than IE.
> and if your a webdeveloper then atm it is the best browser for one simple reason - firebug.

I agree that Firebug is an amazing ext in Firefox. I use it regularly
along with the live headers ext in my work to track XHTTP requests.
What are your favorite aspects of Firebug? Safari has some nice HTML
and Javascript debugging with Drosera & the Web Inspector.

>
> > I use Firefox with NoScript when I'm browsing the
>
> bully for you. given that this is the world of web2.0 I'd imagine your
> browsing is rather limited. it's also masochistic given that you apparently
> choose to use an inferior product (as per your own opinion)

I use different browsers for tasks. Gmail/Google Reader share Camino.
Safari is the browser I use for browsing/work. Firefox is the
browser I use for viewing sites I don't trust with the
NoScript/Flashblock extensions. The fact that XSS and CSRF can steal
your identity/perform actions is serious business to me. I do what I
can to protect myself.

>
> > web, but it is by no means the "best" browser. Safari & Opera have
> > "better" renderers and do it faster.
>
> ah so my supposed opinion needs to take a back seat to your "better" opinion,
> no renderer is perfect. and they're all slightly different. let's not forget
> that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera and Safari is only used by MacHeads
> (which account for about 0.1% of the population) - recommending firefox is mostly about
> educating Joe Average to the possiblities of an alternative that is used by more than
> 5 people already.

I wasn't trying to say my opinion was better. I was just stating that
the rendering engine in Opera and Safari pass the acid2 test[1].
Firefox does not.

>
> > I'm not talking about the
> > Mozilla engine though because Camino fairly decent. It's just all
> > that chrome bloat really makes me sick.
>
> then go to bed.
>
> >
>
>

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2#C...t_applications

Robert Cummings schreef:
> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:14 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
>> let's not forget that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera
>
> Please back up that st-ass-tistic please. Methinks you reached around
> and pulled it out of your lightless nether regions.

given that you can prove anything with statistics, I'd say that's where
all stats come from - well not all from my ass but always someone's ;-)

let me guess you use Opera ... and you work in IT right? :-P

>
> Cheers,
> Rob.

On Jan 31, 2008 12:02 PM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> Robert Cummings schreef:
> > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:14 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
> >> let's not forget that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera
> >
> > Please back up that st-ass-tistic please. Methinks you reached around
> > and pulled it out of your lightless nether regions.
>
> given that you can prove anything with statistics, I'd say that's where
> all stats come from - well not all from my ass but always someone's ;-)
>
> let me guess you use Opera ... and you work in IT right? :-P
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rob.
>
>

My wife uses Opera and she doesn't know much about computers. I
installed IE7, FF, Opera, & Safari for Windows and she picked Opera on
her own. I can't really get into it though.

Eric Butera schreef:
> On Jan 31, 2008 11:14 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
>> Eric Butera schreef:
>>> On Jan 31, 2008 9:27 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
>>>> Eric Butera schreef:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 31, 2008 7:33 AM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Richard Heyes schreef:
>>>>>>> Anyone have any trouble with this combination? It consistently crashes
>>>>>>> for me.
>>>>>> firefox not an option? or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://pear.php.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> IE8 passes Acid2.
>>>> a, it's not out.
>>>> b, all that was said was it does - is there proof? (screenshot doesn't count).
>>>> c, they also want to force developers to include extra meta tags to force IE8 to run in
>>>> strict valdation mode ... otherwise it will run using the old parser ... or something like
>>>> that.
>>>> d, it's liable to be more to do with EU lawsuits than actually giving a hoot about
>>>> stds compliance of any sort.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/0...ersion_switch/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'm up to date on the situation, thanks!
>>>
>>> I just had to throw that in there because you said Firefox like it is
>>> the best browser.
>> no that's your interpretation. I merely implied firefox was better than IE.
>> and if your a webdeveloper then atm it is the best browser for one simple reason - firebug.
>
> I agree that Firebug is an amazing ext in Firefox. I use it regularly
> along with the live headers ext in my work to track XHTTP requests.
> What are your favorite aspects of Firebug?

in line editing of just about everything, introspection of everything. er everything.

Safari has some nice HTML
> and Javascript debugging with Drosera & the Web Inspector.
>
>>> I use Firefox with NoScript when I'm browsing the
>> bully for you. given that this is the world of web2.0 I'd imagine your
>> browsing is rather limited. it's also masochistic given that you apparently
>> choose to use an inferior product (as per your own opinion)
>
> I use different browsers for tasks. Gmail/Google Reader share Camino.
> Safari is the browser I use for browsing/work. Firefox is the
> browser I use for viewing sites I don't trust with the
> NoScript/Flashblock extensions. The fact that XSS and CSRF can steal
> your identity/perform actions is serious business to me. I do what I
> can to protect myself.
>>> web, but it is by no means the "best" browser. Safari & Opera have
>>> "better" renderers and do it faster.
>> ah so my supposed opinion needs to take a back seat to your "better" opinion,
>> no renderer is perfect. and they're all slightly different. let's not forget
>> that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera and Safari is only used by MacHeads
>> (which account for about 0.1% of the population) - recommending firefox is mostly about
>> educating Joe Average to the possiblities of an alternative that is used by more than
>> 5 people already.
>
> I wasn't trying to say my opinion was better. I was just stating that
> the rendering engine in Opera and Safari pass the acid2 test[1].
> Firefox does not.

you didn't state anything of the sort until just then.
and you do realise that Acid2 is not actually a standard AND that there
are plenty of differences of opinion regarding the minutae of 'proper
implementation' of some of the things Acid2 tests.

>
>>> I'm not talking about the
>>> Mozilla engine though because Camino fairly decent. It's just all
>>> that chrome bloat really makes me sick.
>> then go to bed.
>>
>>
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2#C...t_applications

Eric Butera schreef:
> On Jan 31, 2008 12:02 PM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
>> Robert Cummings schreef:
>>> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:14 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
>>>> let's not forget that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera
>>> Please back up that st-ass-tistic please. Methinks you reached around
>>> and pulled it out of your lightless nether regions.
>> given that you can prove anything with statistics, I'd say that's where
>> all stats come from - well not all from my ass but always someone's ;-)
>>
>> let me guess you use Opera ... and you work in IT right? :-P
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rob.
>>
>
> My wife uses Opera and she doesn't know much about computers. I
> installed IE7, FF, Opera, & Safari for Windows and she picked Opera on
> her own. I can't really get into it though.

I guess the shitty interface is appealing to people with more taste than us :-)
Steve Job's would be annoyed though - which is funny in and of itself :-P

>

Richard Heyes schreef:
> Jochem Maas wrote:
>> Richard Heyes schreef:
>>>> firefox not an option?
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> > or anything else that resembles a proper browser ;-)
>>>
>>> Strange, IE has been working fine for me for the last eight years...
>>
>> that's the kind of thing people say just after they hear they have
>> prostrate cancer ;-)
>
> Lol.
>
>> seriously though - why is FF (or any other browser) not an option?
>
> I suppose it is, but I like Internet Explorer. Have done for ages.

lol - some people like MacDonalds - no account for taste :-)
my guess is if you use another browser for a month, you'll get so used
to it that going back to IE will feel just as painful as opening something
other than IE does now ... at least that's how it always is for me.

I don't like Safari ... but now I use a MacBook I keep opening it up and
really I am starting to like it more and more .. although I don't really,
sort of, not, possibly :-)

>
> > your
>> a web developer, I would imagine you should be running a complete
>> arsenal of
>> different browsers as part of the job, no?
>
> Yes. MSIE, Firefox, Opera etc.
>
>> and then there's the question as to why you don't upgrade to IE7. or
>> maybe
>> rebuild the windows machine in question (hey it wouldn't be the first
>> time something
>> like this was ed by a clean install right?)
>
> I don't like the IE7 interface, in particular the font smoothing thing.

got to admit the IE7 interface is indeed a step backwards - that is quite an
achievement :-P

> And besides, I can't be arsed... :-)
>

spoken like a true webhead. may I refer you to that last comment with regard to
seeking an answer to your original question :-P

On Jan 31, 2008 12:16 PM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> you didn't state anything of the sort until just then.
> and you do realise that Acid2 is not actually a standard AND that there
> are plenty of differences of opinion regarding the minutae of 'proper
> implementation' of some of the things Acid2 tests.

Of course. I also realize that .innerHTML wasn't actually a standard
at first. Sometimes it is up to the cowboys and not the W3C to get
stuff done.

i like opera for 4 reasons,
1. it renders fast
2. when i have 50 tabs open, its still responsive
3. it supports ctrl+z, wicked feature :>
4. when you close and reopen, all the tabs from before are still there; key

however, firefox is the champion for web development.
not only is firebug awesome, but i still use the older web developer plugin.
its good for showing form details, outlining things, and clearing the cache,
all very quick to get to and execute.

for a while i tried the multiple browser thing. but managing bookmarks in
more than one browser is a pain. also, have you ever looked at memory
consumption on ur pc w/ 2 browsers running?? get another gig for that

so, despite some of the klunkieness of ff, that is what i use for browsing
and development.

eric,
thanks for the tips on the safari plugins, Drosera & the Web Inspector, ill
definitely install those for my safari debugging

-nathan

Nathan Nobbe schreef:
> i like opera for 4 reasons,
> 1. it renders fast
> 2. when i have 50 tabs open, its still responsive
> 3. it supports ctrl+z, wicked feature :>

undo? undo what?

> 4. when you close and reopen, all the tabs from before are still there; key
>
> however, firefox is the champion for web development.
> not only is firebug awesome, but i still use the older web developer plugin.
> its good for showing form details, outlining things, and clearing the cache,
> all very quick to get to and execute.
>
> for a while i tried the multiple browser thing. but managing bookmarks in
> more than one browser is a pain. also, have you ever looked at memory
> consumption on ur pc w/ 2 browsers running?? get another gig for that

I keep bookmarks in my head and in a search engine. managing them in even one browser
is too much hassle :-) I jsut keep tabs open and read whatever when I'm ready/able - I
don't ever have to shut down the browser or the machine ... and 50 open tabs is no problem
.... did I mention I use a Mac ;-)

>
> so, despite some of the klunkieness of ff, that is what i use for browsing
> and development.
>
> eric,
> thanks for the tips on the safari plugins, Drosera & the Web Inspector, ill
> definitely install those for my safari debugging
>
> -nathan

On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 18:02 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
> Robert Cummings schreef:
> > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:14 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
> >> let's not forget that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera
> >
> > Please back up that st-ass-tistic please. Methinks you reached around
> > and pulled it out of your lightless nether regions.
>
> given that you can prove anything with statistics, I'd say that's where
> all stats come from - well not all from my ass but always someone's ;-)
>
> let me guess you use Opera ... and you work in IT right? :-P

I use Opera for 99% of my browsing and 90% of development. I use Firefox
for 1% of browsing (the occasional site doesn't like Opera) and 1% of
development (usually just a check that a page renders properly). I use
IE for 1% of browsing (some inept sites only like IE), and 9% of
development (usually because I keep having to re-check web pages to get
them to look right in IE's inept engine).

Would you believe me if I said I wasn't in IT? My wife isn't in IT,
but she uses Opera regularly, she likes it's speed and the way it zooms.
My 4 year old son loves Opera, but he doesn't know anything else yet
He likes it when I jump on google images and do searches for things like
"dinosaurs", "solar system", "trucks", etc. Then he browses through the
results. of course, he also only knows Linux so far. He can happily
navigate folders and menus. The icons determine his interest level
since he can't read very well just yet.

Cheers,
Rob.
--
..------------------------------------------------------------.
| InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com |
:------------------------------------------------------------:
| An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting |
| a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services |
| such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn |
| also provides an extremely flexible architecture for |
| creating re-usable components quickly and easily. |
`------------------------------------------------------------'

On Jan 31, 2008 12:32 PM, Nathan Nobbe <quickshiftin@gmail.com> wrote:
> i like opera for 4 reasons,
> 1. it renders fast
> 2. when i have 50 tabs open, its still responsive
> 3. it supports ctrl+z, wicked feature :>
> 4. when you close and reopen, all the tabs from before are still there; key
>
> however, firefox is the champion for web development.
> not only is firebug awesome, but i still use the older web developer plugin.
> its good for showing form details, outlining things, and clearing the cache,
> all very quick to get to and execute.
>
> for a while i tried the multiple browser thing. but managing bookmarks in
> more than one browser is a pain. also, have you ever looked at memory
> consumption on ur pc w/ 2 browsers running?? get another gig for that
>
> so, despite some of the klunkieness of ff, that is what i use for browsing
> and development.
>
> eric,
> thanks for the tips on the safari plugins, Drosera & the Web Inspector, ill
> definitely install those for my safari debugging
>
> -nathan
>

I think I'm just bitter because I like FF so much yet it keeps getting
more sluggish on me. At home on Ubuntu x86 it is okay. At work here
on OS X PPC it is horrible. I also use the web developer toolbar for
clearing cache/ & viewing rendered source. Forgot about that
one.

On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 18:18 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
> Eric Butera schreef:
> > On Jan 31, 2008 12:02 PM, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:
> >> Robert Cummings schreef:
> >>> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 17:14 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote:
> >>>> let's not forget that nobody outside of IT actually uses Opera
> >>> Please back up that st-ass-tistic please. Methinks you reached around
> >>> and pulled it out of your lightless nether regions.
> >> given that you can prove anything with statistics, I'd say that's where
> >> all stats come from - well not all from my ass but always someone's ;-)
> >>
> >> let me guess you use Opera ... and you work in IT right? :-P
> >>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Rob.
> >>
> >
> > My wife uses Opera and she doesn't know much about computers. I
> > installed IE7, FF, Opera, & Safari for Windows and she picked Opera on
> > her own. I can't really get into it though.
>
> I guess the shitty interface is appealing to people with more taste than us :-)
> Steve Job's would be annoyed though - which is funny in and of itself :-P

I dunno, Opera comes with a built in flag for disabling that wretching
thing called tabbed browsing. Firefox requires you to install a plugin.
Also, I find the configurability of Opera's interface to be superior to
what I last used for Firefox.

Cheers,
Rob.
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