As an independent designer, I was wondering how recession-proof web design is... Maybe 2001, 2002 should bring back some memories of toil and strife?...

"Paevo Kelley" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:ftlhps$ckp$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> As an independent designer, I was wondering how recession-proof web design
> is... Maybe 2001, 2002 should bring back some memories of toil and
> strife?...

I think web design/development is changing fast, and success will depend
upon having the right skills.


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> As an independent designer, I was wondering how recession-proof web design
> is... Maybe 2001, 2002 should bring back some memories of toil and
> strife?...

Is ANYTHING truly recession proof?

-Darrel

Nothing is recession-proof. People (businesses especially) cut back on their
spending and web sites are no different. I was writing web sites leading up
to 2001, mostly for large businesses. When it hit, everyone cut back.
Businesses that would have updated their site four times a year and
completely redo it once or twice a year went to making small tweaks and
changes. Instead of writing a new site with a new approach for them, it was
"can we make changes to these two pages?" Other businesses that had fancy,
fun, interesting sites cut back to no-fun, no-frills, business-oriented
sites. In fact, this is when so much of the fun went out of business web
sites and everyone decided it had to make good dollars and cents sense and
there was no room for fun or creativity.

The business will still be there, but be prepared for people wanting to pay
less for the same thing or at the least, just wanting smaller, cheaper
sites.

MD


Paevo Kelley wrote:
> As an independent designer, I was wondering how recession-proof web
> design is... Maybe 2001, 2002 should bring back some memories of toil
> and strife?...

"Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
news:ftlibv$d8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> The business will still be there, but be prepared for people wanting to
> pay less for the same thing or at the least, just wanting smaller, cheaper
> sites.

Or to create the site themselves, or have a nephew do it.. <sigh>.


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P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
> news:ftlibv$d8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>
>> The business will still be there, but be prepared for people wanting
>> to pay less for the same thing or at the least, just wanting
>> smaller, cheaper sites.
>
> Or to create the site themselves, or have a nephew do it.. <sigh>.

....and then call you to fix up the mess they made and wind up paying as much
or more than they would have had they gotten you to do it in the first
place.....(:})

"Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
news:ftlj85$e81$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
>> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
>> news:ftlibv$d8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>>
>>> The business will still be there, but be prepared for people wanting
>>> to pay less for the same thing or at the least, just wanting
>>> smaller, cheaper sites.
>>
>> Or to create the site themselves, or have a nephew do it.. <sigh>.
>
> ...and then call you to fix up the mess they made and wind up paying as
> much or more than they would have had they gotten you to do it in the
> first place.....(:})

...And then find another relative or intern to do it, and leave you writing
time-consuming proposals for 3 or 4 web sites a month, but not getting
nearly enough of the contracts because they're all just shopping and taking
advantage of you, so that you get tired of the whole thing and leave the
country for a while to do volunteer work, and then come back and start up
doing web design again, but with a different business model.. oh, sorry, was
I actually writing that? :-)


--
Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
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--

P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
> news:ftlj85$e81$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
>>> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ftlibv$d8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>>>
>>>> The business will still be there, but be prepared for people
>>>> wanting to pay less for the same thing or at the least, just
>>>> wanting smaller, cheaper sites.
>>>
>>> Or to create the site themselves, or have a nephew do it.. <sigh>.
>>
>> ...and then call you to fix up the mess they made and wind up paying
>> as much or more than they would have had they gotten you to do it in
>> the first place.....(:})
>
> ..And then find another relative or intern to do it, and leave you
> writing time-consuming proposals for 3 or 4 web sites a month, but
> not getting nearly enough of the contracts because they're all just
> shopping and taking advantage of you, so that you get tired of the
> whole thing and leave the country for a while to do volunteer work,
> and then come back and start up doing web design again, but with a
> different business model.. oh, sorry, was I actually writing that? :-)
>

Actually you were pretty much describing what happened in 2001....I went to
Bali for 8 months and when I got back most of the corporate website writing
had vanished and I got more into the web design part of it. I wonder what
I'll shift to this time around!

"Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
news:ftljlg$epi$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
>> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
>> news:ftlj85$e81$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>>> P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
>>>> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ftlibv$d8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>>>>
>>>>> The business will still be there, but be prepared for people
>>>>> wanting to pay less for the same thing or at the least, just
>>>>> wanting smaller, cheaper sites.
>>>>
>>>> Or to create the site themselves, or have a nephew do it.. <sigh>.
>>>
>>> ...and then call you to fix up the mess they made and wind up paying
>>> as much or more than they would have had they gotten you to do it in
>>> the first place.....(:})
>>
>> ..And then find another relative or intern to do it, and leave you
>> writing time-consuming proposals for 3 or 4 web sites a month, but
>> not getting nearly enough of the contracts because they're all just
>> shopping and taking advantage of you, so that you get tired of the
>> whole thing and leave the country for a while to do volunteer work,
>> and then come back and start up doing web design again, but with a
>> different business model.. oh, sorry, was I actually writing that? :-)
>>
>
> Actually you were pretty much describing what happened in 2001....I went
> to Bali for 8 months and when I got back most of the corporate website
> writing had vanished and I got more into the web design part of it. I
> wonder what I'll shift to this time around!

Heh heh, cool. For me it was 2008, and Mexico. And it does seem like the
trick is staying "light on our feet" and adjusting to the times and the
market..


--
Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--

Which is why you don't provide very detailed design proposals.
Overviews work - also, if they want a detailed design document, they
should pay for it. Yes, you'll lose people who want that for their
quote for free first - let them scam someone else and that is one less
company that you can sidestep on your way to a paying customer. Anyone
in a serious business, while trying to be cost concerned, knows that
everything that takes serious time will cost real money.

Paul Davis
http://www.kaosweaver.com/
Visit us for dozens of useful Dreamweaver Extensions.

http://www.communitymx.com/
Partner at Community MX - Extend your knowledge

P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
> news:ftlj85$e81$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
>>> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ftlibv$d8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>>>
>>>> The business will still be there, but be prepared for people wanting
>>>> to pay less for the same thing or at the least, just wanting
>>>> smaller, cheaper sites.
>>> Or to create the site themselves, or have a nephew do it.. <sigh>.
>> ...and then call you to fix up the mess they made and wind up paying as
>> much or more than they would have had they gotten you to do it in the
>> first place.....(:})
>
> ..And then find another relative or intern to do it, and leave you writing
> time-consuming proposals for 3 or 4 web sites a month, but not getting
> nearly enough of the contracts because they're all just shopping and taking
> advantage of you, so that you get tired of the whole thing and leave the
> country for a while to do volunteer work, and then come back and start up
> doing web design again, but with a different business model.. oh, sorry, was
> I actually writing that? :-)
>
>

Well, Paul, I understand what you're saying, but I find that it's a very
common expectation that a proposal should be fairly detailed, and free,
since this has been typical in related industries for a long time. The
number of people competing for each contract makes it so that clients can
continue to ask and get that kind of proposal from lots of people.

Also, even aside from that, it's pretty difficult to offer an estimate for a
web site project without knowing a lot about what the web site will consist
of. And it's the determining those specs that take a lot of the time. For
independent or small-company web developers, clients don't usually have an
RFP, or if they do, it sucks. And yes, I've tried charging clients for the
specification-determining process - again, most won't pay for it, because
there are 10 web devs lined up behind me ready to spend several weeks doing
it for free.

My experience, anyway. :-)


--
Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--



"Paul Davis" <kaosNOweaver@kaosSPAMweaver.com> wrote in message
news:ftlkgg$fcs$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Which is why you don't provide very detailed design proposals. Overviews
> work - also, if they want a detailed design document, they should pay for
> it. Yes, you'll lose people who want that for their quote for free
> first - let them scam someone else and that is one less company that you
> can sidestep on your way to a paying customer. Anyone in a serious
> business, while trying to be cost concerned, knows that everything that
> takes serious time will cost real money.
>
> Paul Davis
> http://www.kaosweaver.com/
> Visit us for dozens of useful Dreamweaver Extensions.
>
> http://www.communitymx.com/
> Partner at Community MX - Extend your knowledge
>
> P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
>> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
>> news:ftlj85$e81$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>>> P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
>>>> "Mad Dog" <md@maddogproductions-remove.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ftlibv$d8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>>>>
>>>>> The business will still be there, but be prepared for people wanting
>>>>> to pay less for the same thing or at the least, just wanting
>>>>> smaller, cheaper sites.
>>>> Or to create the site themselves, or have a nephew do it.. <sigh>.
>>> ...and then call you to fix up the mess they made and wind up paying as
>>> much or more than they would have had they gotten you to do it in the
>>> first place.....(:})
>>
>> ..And then find another relative or intern to do it, and leave you
>> writing time-consuming proposals for 3 or 4 web sites a month, but not
>> getting nearly enough of the contracts because they're all just shopping
>> and taking advantage of you, so that you get tired of the whole thing and
>> leave the country for a while to do volunteer work, and then come back
>> and start up doing web design again, but with a different business
>> model.. oh, sorry, was I actually writing that? :-)
>>

i think a lot of it also depends on your industry. for example, i work
for a real estate company, and it's no secret how that market's going
right now (though it is getting better now). but my job is secure
because they absolutely must have a website, and it needs to be updated
regularly if they want to compete. no matter how bad things get, i will
have a job (unless the whole company folds, of course) because the
website is the most important lead generator the company has and it must
be maintained. i'm sure that's the case with many other
industries/companies as well.


Paevo Kelley wrote:
> As an independent designer, I was wondering how recession-proof web design is... Maybe 2001, 2002 should bring back some memories of toil and strife?...
>

Yes, I thought I might generate a bit of discussion with this... I agree with
Courney,-- businesses who absolutely must upgrade will do so regardless of the
economy... Seems like I heard once that the service industry as a whole is
fairly recession proof... Any economist-turned-web designers out there (I am a
former French Literature professor, so am a de facto economics idiot)...

Paevo Kelley wrote:
> As an independent designer, I was wondering how recession-proof web
> design is... Maybe 2001, 2002 should bring back some memories of toil
> and strife?...

I started my first web design company in 2001, so that was probably
something I shouldn't have done....! <g>

My experience is that a well run web development company should have minimal
exposure to recession effects, by always having a good spread of clients
across industries. Yes, it hurts if a major client goes under, but if you
keep it so that even your biggest client comprises around 20-25% of
turnover, you'll survive. Web Development companies have a similar position
to marketing/advertising agencies - when things get tight for the client,
they're the items that go first. To mitigate this, ensure that the clients
know the importance of their website and how much business it brings them,
directly or indirectly; if you can't prove this, expect to lose the client.

My 2p's worth (discounted to 1p during the recession....)

Regards,

Pete.
--
Peter Connolly
http://www.kpdirection.com
Utah

"Paevo Kelley" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:ftlmmj$htr$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> ... I agree with
> Courney,-- businesses who absolutely must upgrade will do so regardless of
> the
> economy...

Well, they have to maintain their web site, but they have a lot of options
as to who to pay to do it, many of them much charging very low prices.


--
Patty Ayers | Adobe Community Expert
www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--

Thanks all, Vachement interessant...!!!!