Hi,

I'm looking for a decent imap server with hierarchical folders. I tried
Cyrus, but Cyrus does not accept the emails that I'm trying to copy onto
it. Which other imap server has hierarchical folders? Any experiences
for share?

Thanks,
Gordon


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Public Mailing Lists wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a decent imap server with hierarchical folders. I tried
> Cyrus, but Cyrus does not accept the emails that I'm trying to copy onto
> it. Which other imap server has hierarchical folders? Any experiences
> for share?
>
> Thanks,
> Gordon
>
I recently installed Dovecot to allow me to use maildir local folders
across mail clients. Very simple to get this running. Hierarchical
folders seem to work fine.

jeff


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Public Mailing Lists wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a decent imap server with hierarchical folders. I tried
> Cyrus, but Cyrus does not accept the emails that I'm trying to copy onto
> it. Which other imap server has hierarchical folders? Any experiences
> for share?
>
> Thanks,
> Gordon
>
>
IMAP does this by definition. I'm using Courier. Assuming a default
Debian exim4 installation, you need to switch it to using maildir rather
than mbox format, I believe all IMAP servers require this.


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Joe wrote:
> Public Mailing Lists wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm looking for a decent imap server with hierarchical folders. I
>> tried Cyrus, but Cyrus does not accept the emails that I'm trying to
>> copy onto it. Which other imap server has hierarchical folders? Any
>> experiences for share?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gordon
>>
>>
> IMAP does this by definition. I'm using Courier. Assuming a default
> Debian exim4 installation, you need to switch it to using maildir rather
> than mbox format, I believe all IMAP servers require this.

Courier can be set up to support maildir or mbox formats. Of course,
maildir is better.

Nate


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Hi,

I'm looking for a decent imap server that supports hierarchical folders.
My first try was Cyrus, but that one is too pedantic when accepting
legacy emails. Other suggestions were Courier and Dovecot with maildir
storage format.

Now I have lots of folders with dots in their names. And both Courier
and Dovecot treat the dot as hierarchy separator. Frequently, domain
names (as in mail.google.com) are used as folder names in my system, and
these get messed up.

Is there a way in either Courier or Dovecot to allow dots '.' in folder
names?

Cyrus has "Unix Hierarchy Convention", that appears to work well.
With Dovecot, I tried to set 'separator' to '/' in the 'namespace'
construct, but it did not .
How can I get this Unix Hierarchy Convention in Courier or Dovecot?

Thanks,
Gordon



Nate Duehr wrote:

> Joe wrote:
>
>> Public Mailing Lists wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a decent imap server with hierarchical folders. I
>>> tried Cyrus, but Cyrus does not accept the emails that I'm trying to
>>> copy onto it. Which other imap server has hierarchical folders? Any
>>> experiences for share?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Gordon
>>>
>>>
>> IMAP does this by definition. I'm using Courier. Assuming a default
>> Debian exim4 installation, you need to switch it to using maildir
>> rather than mbox format, I believe all IMAP servers require this.
>
>
> Courier can be set up to support maildir or mbox formats. Of course,
> maildir is better.
>
> Nate
>
>


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On 05/27/08 12:38, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a decent imap server that supports hierarchical folders.
> My first try was Cyrus, but that one is too pedantic when accepting
> legacy emails. Other suggestions were Courier and Dovecot with maildir
> storage format.
>
> Now I have lots of folders with dots in their names. And both Courier
> and Dovecot treat the dot as hierarchy separator. Frequently, domain
> names (as in mail.google.com) are used as folder names in my system, and
> these get messed up.
>
> Is there a way in either Courier or Dovecot to allow dots '.' in folder
> names?

It's not Courier and Dovecot, that are the problem, but that
*Maildir* uses dots as hierarchy separator, Could you change the
dots to underscores?

BTW, you seem to be using a 2 year old version of Mozilla. Time to
upgrade!!!!

> Cyrus has "Unix Hierarchy Convention", that appears to work well.
> With Dovecot, I tried to set 'separator' to '/' in the 'namespace'
> construct, but it did not .
> How can I get this Unix Hierarchy Convention in Courier or Dovecot?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

ESPN makes baseball players better.
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Hi Ron,

brilliant observation. :-) I can't wait to upgrade from this ancient
Mozilla, once I get this imap stuff to work...

No, I can't change the dots to underscores, sorry. Cyrus appers to be
really smart about dots and change them secretly to charets, or
something. Is it possible to have any other imap server do this the same
way, i.e. transparently?

Would using mbox make it any better? Actually, I like the idea of
maildir of having each message in a single file, even though I don't
understand why maildir uses a dot for folder hierarchy instead of using
a directory hierarchy provided by the file system...

Cheers,
Gordon


Ron Johnson wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On 05/27/08 12:38, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm looking for a decent imap server that supports hierarchical folders.
>>My first try was Cyrus, but that one is too pedantic when accepting
>>legacy emails. Other suggestions were Courier and Dovecot with maildir
>>storage format.
>>
>>Now I have lots of folders with dots in their names. And both Courier
>>and Dovecot treat the dot as hierarchy separator. Frequently, domain
>>names (as in mail.google.com) are used as folder names in my system, and
>>these get messed up.
>>
>>Is there a way in either Courier or Dovecot to allow dots '.' in folder
>>names?
>>
>>
>
>It's not Courier and Dovecot, that are the problem, but that
>*Maildir* uses dots as hierarchy separator, Could you change the
>dots to underscores?
>
>BTW, you seem to be using a 2 year old version of Mozilla. Time to
>upgrade!!!!
>
>
>
>>Cyrus has "Unix Hierarchy Convention", that appears to work well.
>>With Dovecot, I tried to set 'separator' to '/' in the 'namespace'
>>construct, but it did not .
>>How can I get this Unix Hierarchy Convention in Courier or Dovecot?
>>
>>


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On 05/27/08 15:27, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> brilliant observation. :-) I can't wait to upgrade from this ancient
> Mozilla, once I get this imap stuff to work...
>
> No, I can't change the dots to underscores, sorry. Cyrus appers to be
> really smart about dots and change them secretly to charets, or
> something. Is it possible to have any other imap server do this the same
> way, i.e. transparently?

Escaping the . might work. I tried it, from within Icedove, though,
and it didn't work. Maybe from the command line.

> Would using mbox make it any better?

Depends on your definition of "better". uw-imapd and (maybe)
Dovecot support mbox-backed-IMAP, so maybe that's the route you
should take.

> Actually, I like the idea of
> maildir of having each message in a single file, even though I don't
> understand why maildir uses a dot for folder hierarchy instead of using
> a directory hierarchy provided by the file system...

The courier-imap list would probably have that kind of historical
knowledge.

> Cheers,
> Gordon
>
>
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On 05/27/08 12:38, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a decent imap server that supports hierarchical folders.
>>> My first try was Cyrus, but that one is too pedantic when accepting
>>> legacy emails. Other suggestions were Courier and Dovecot with maildir
>>> storage format.
>>>
>>> Now I have lots of folders with dots in their names. And both Courier
>>> and Dovecot treat the dot as hierarchy separator. Frequently, domain
>>> names (as in mail.google.com) are used as folder names in my system, and
>>> these get messed up.
>>>
>>> Is there a way in either Courier or Dovecot to allow dots '.' in folder
>>> names?
>>>
>>
>> It's not Courier and Dovecot, that are the problem, but that
>> *Maildir* uses dots as hierarchy separator, Could you change the
>> dots to underscores?
>>
>> BTW, you seem to be using a 2 year old version of Mozilla. Time to
>> upgrade!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cyrus has "Unix Hierarchy Convention", that appears to work well.
>>> With Dovecot, I tried to set 'separator' to '/' in the 'namespace'
>>> construct, but it did not .
>>> How can I get this Unix Hierarchy Convention in Courier or Dovecot?
>>>
>
>


- --
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Jefferson LA USA

ESPN makes baseball players better.
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On 05/27/08 16:00, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 05/27/08 15:27, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
>> Hi Ron,
>
>> brilliant observation. :-) I can't wait to upgrade from this ancient
>> Mozilla, once I get this imap stuff to work...
>
>> No, I can't change the dots to underscores, sorry. Cyrus appers to be
>> really smart about dots and change them secretly to charets, or
>> something. Is it possible to have any other imap server do this the same
>> way, i.e. transparently?
>
> Escaping the . might work. I tried it, from within Icedove, though,
> and it didn't work. Maybe from the command line.

Ok, it *is* possible to create Maildir folders with dots in them.

$ maildirmake -f test\.ing Maildir
$#
$ dir Maildir/.test.ing/
total 32
drwx------ 6 me me 4096 2008-05-27 20:00 ./
drwx-w---- 88 me me 4096 2008-05-27 19:59 ../
- -rw-r--r-- 1 me me 43 2008-05-27 20:00 courierimapacl
drwx------ 2 me me 4096 2008-05-27 20:01 courierimapkeywords/
- -rw-r--r-- 1 me me 84 2008-05-27 20:01 courierimapuiddb
drwx------ 2 me me 4096 2008-05-27 20:01 cur/
- -rw------- 1 me me 0 2008-05-27 19:59 maildirfolder
drwx------ 2 me me 4096 2008-05-27 19:59 new/
drwx------ 2 me me 4096 2008-05-27 20:01 tmp/

The Python IMAP library sees that the test.ing folder has no
children, but Icedove/Tbird doesn't handle it correctly. Maybe
Sylpheed or GNOME will?

- --
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Jefferson LA USA

ESPN makes baseball players better.
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Public Mailing Lists <lists@lists.cichon.com> writes:

> No, I can't change the dots to underscores, sorry. Cyrus appers to
> be really smart about dots and change them secretly to charets, or
> something. Is it possible to have any other imap server do this the
> same way, i.e. transparently?

With Dovecot, you can use a namespace to define '/' as the hierarchy
separator, even if Maildir is used as storage.

BTW, what are the problems with Cyrus ?

--
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Yes, I defined '/' as separator in the namespace with Dovecot. I'm able
to create folders that contain dots in their name, and they get messed
up in Thunderbird, as Ron confirms.

With Cyrus, I can create folders with subfolders with dots in their name
correctly. That also works with Thunderbird. So, it looks like it's not
Thunderbird's fault.

The problem with Cyrus is that Cyrus refuses to accept a large number of
emails that it considers to be not "standard compliant". E.g. it rejects
specific "From"-headers that Mozilla is using. Even though this applies
to only 1% of all email, it is still an enormous number of them.

On the web, it is suggested to use a sed-script to remove these
offending headers from the mbox files before copying them to Cyrus.
However, Mozilla's own index files (.msf) get confused if the underlying
mbox files change, and some emails just disappear. (There are also
emails disappearing if the .msf file is deleted).

BTW, mbox/Dovecot does not support hierarchical folders.




Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote:

>Public Mailing Lists <lists@lists.cichon.com> writes:
>
>
>
>>No, I can't change the dots to underscores, sorry. Cyrus appers to
>>be really smart about dots and change them secretly to charets, or
>>something. Is it possible to have any other imap server do this the
>>same way, i.e. transparently?
>>
>>
>
>With Dovecot, you can use a namespace to define '/' as the hierarchy
>separator, even if Maildir is used as storage.
>
>BTW, what are the problems with Cyrus ?
>
>
>


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On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:59:57AM +0200, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
> Yes, I defined '/' as separator in the namespace with Dovecot. I'm
> able to create folders that contain dots in their name, and they get
> messed up in Thunderbird, as Ron confirms.

Sorry, I misread your initial post.

> The problem with Cyrus is that Cyrus refuses to accept a large number
> of emails that it considers to be not "standard compliant". E.g. it
> rejects specific "From"-headers that Mozilla is using. Even though
> this applies to only 1% of all email, it is still an enormous number
> of them.

You can patch the Cyrus sources to accept them; that's what I did (at a
previous work and at home).

In the imap/message.c file, search for IMAP_MESSAGE_CONTAINSNULL,
IMAP_MESSAGE_CONTAINSNL and IMAP_MESSAGE_BADHEADER; they are mostly used
as error return values when appending new messages in the
"message_copy_strict" function. Comment out the offending code, and it
will work.

--
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On 05/28/08 03:59, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
[snip]
>
> On the web, it is suggested to use a sed-script to remove these
> offending headers from the mbox files before copying them to Cyrus.
> However, Mozilla's own index files (.msf) get confused if the underlying
> mbox files change, and some emails just disappear. (There are also
> emails disappearing if the .msf file is deleted).

Shut down [Mozilla], delete the .msf files, restart [Mozilla] and it
will re-generate the msf files.

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Hi Gordon and *,

Am 2008-05-27 19:38:28, schrieb Public Mailing Lists:
> Now I have lots of folders with dots in their names. And both Courier
> and Dovecot treat the dot as hierarchy separator. Frequently, domain
> names (as in mail.google.com) are used as folder names in my system, and
> these get messed up.
>
> Is there a way in either Courier or Dovecot to allow dots '.' in folder
> names?

No, since it is its convention.

> How can I get this Unix Hierarchy Convention in Courier or Dovecot?

Convert your "DOT" folders...

Since I am using since arround 8 years "courier" and "procmail" I have
done some heavy coding and scripting around it...

I am using procmail recipes for filtering my mailinglists and one of
them is:

----[ '/usr/share/tdtools-procmail/ML_linux' ]--------------------------
<snip>
:0
* $ ^Envelope-To:.*(${TDTP_EMAIL_ML})
{
<snip>
:0
* ! ? grep --ignore-case --regexp="${FROM}" ${WLIST}
* ? test -f ${HOME}/.procmail/ML_linux.spamfilter
{ INCLUDERC=${HOME}/.procmail/ML_linux.spamfilter }
<snip>
#================================================= ====================
:0
* ^Mailing-List: contact \/.*
{
TMPVAR=`echo "${MATCH}" |tr '.' '_' |sed 's|-@|@|' |sed 's|;.*||'`
:0
.ML_linux.${TMPVAR}/
}
#================================================= ====================
:0
* $ ^X-BeenThere:.*[${ST}]\/.*
{
TMPVAR=`echo "${MATCH}" |tr '.' '_'`
:0
.ML_linux.${TMPVAR}/
}
#================================================= ====================
:0
* $ ^X-Mailing-List:.*[${ST}]\/.*
{
TMPVAR=`echo "${MATCH}" |tr '.' '_'`
:0
.ML_linux.${TMPVAR}/
}
#================================================= ====================
:0
* $ ^Sender:.*[${ST}]\/.*
{
TMPVAR=`echo "${MATCH}" |tr '.' '_' |sed 's|-owner@|@|'`
:0
.ML_linux.${TMPVAR}/
}
#================================================= ====================
:0
.ATTENTION.ML_linux/
}
------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see, I change the DOTs into "_" while filtering.

which then create a Maildir of:

----[ command 'ld -d ~/Maildir/.ML_linux*/' ]-----------------------------
~/Maildir/.ML_linux/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.2007/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.2008/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.ADMIN/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.ADMIN.2007/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.ADMIN.2008/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.bind-announce@isc_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.bind-dlz-testers@lists_sourceforge_net/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.bind-users@isc_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linuxchix/
~/Maildir/.ML_linuxchix.2008/
~/Maildir/.ML_linuxchix.ADMIN/
~/Maildir/.ML_linuxchix.ADMIN.2008/
~/Maildir/.ML_linuxchix.grrls-only/
~/Maildir/.ML_linuxchix.grrltalk/
~/Maildir/.ML_linuxchix.techtalk/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.gphoto-user@lists_sourceforge_net/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.isdn4linux@listserv_isdn4linux_de/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.leaf-user@lists_sourceforge_net/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.linux-audio-dev@lists_linuxaudio_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.linux-audio-user@lists_linuxaudio_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.mc@gnome_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.mp3encoder@minnie_tuhs_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.mplayer-users@mplayerhq_hu/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.nut-upsuser@lists_alioth_debian_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.openldap-software@openldap_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.parsix-users@parsix_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.sed-users@yahoogroups_com/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.sitebar/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.smartmontools-support@lists_sourceforge_net/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.speedtouch@ml_free_fr/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.squid-users@squid-cache_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.users-de@httpd_apache_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.users@httpd_apache_org/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.wget@sunsite_dk/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.xen-users@lists_xensource_com/
~/Maildir/.ML_linux.zekr@googlegroups_com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the Debian lists I use a Filter a little bit different but equal...

----[ '/usr/share/tdtools-procmail/ML_debian' ]--------------------------
<snip>
:0
<snip>
:0
* ! ? grep --ignore-case --regexp="${FROM}" ${WLIST}
* ? test -f ${HOME}/.procmail/ML_debian.spamfilter
{ INCLUDERC=${HOME}/.procmail/ML_debian.spamfilter }
<snip>
:0
* ^X-Mailing-List:.*<debian-[-a-zA-Z0-9]+@lists\.debian\.org>
* ^X-Mailing-List:.*<debian-\/[-a-zA-Z0-9]+
.ML_debian.${MATCH}/
#-------------------------------------------------------------------
:0
* ^X-BeenThere:.*[-a-zA-Z0-9]+@lists\.alioth\.debian\.org
* ^X-BeenThere:.*\/[-a-zA-Z0-9]+
.ML_debian.${MATCH}/
<snip>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: Currently I am preparing a new private debian package (very
complex) for "courier" and "procmail" and will put it under
the name "tdtools-procmail" onto my website and mirror at
<http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/> but haveing some
problems with my Devel-Station (broken) to build the packages.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 04:00:26PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> On 05/27/08 15:27, Public Mailing Lists wrote:

>
> > Would using mbox make it any better?
>
> Depends on your definition of "better". uw-imapd and (maybe)
> Dovecot support mbox-backed-IMAP, so maybe that's the route you
> should take.

uw-imapd supports mbox and an improved folder-in-a-file format called
mbx. Dovecot supports both. It also indexes the mbox file (assuming that
it is the only one modifiying it, according to ctime).

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On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 06:00:16PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 05/31/08 15:54, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> > On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 04:00:26PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> On 05/27/08 15:27, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
> >
> >>> Would using mbox make it any better?
> >> Depends on your definition of "better". uw-imapd and (maybe)
> >> Dovecot support mbox-backed-IMAP, so maybe that's the route you
> >> should take.
> >
> > uw-imapd supports mbox and an improved folder-in-a-file format called
> > mbx.
>
> And when you need to delete an email from the middle of an huge
> sequential file?
>
> The bottom line is that sequential files are *bad* "huge data"
> stores for everything except append-only log files.

I didn't say it was optimal. I only said it was way better than
non-indexed mbox.

And then, of course, is the counter claim that maildir requires you many
more system calls for the basic operation of scanning a mailbox, which
is more common than modifying a mailbox.

(This is, at least, the opinion of Mark Crispin, last time I read him in
a discussion on that topic)

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ICQ# 16849754 | | friend


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On 05/31/08 15:54, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 04:00:26PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 05/27/08 15:27, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
>
>>> Would using mbox make it any better?
>> Depends on your definition of "better". uw-imapd and (maybe)
>> Dovecot support mbox-backed-IMAP, so maybe that's the route you
>> should take.
>
> uw-imapd supports mbox and an improved folder-in-a-file format called
> mbx.

And when you need to delete an email from the middle of an huge
sequential file?

The bottom line is that sequential files are *bad* "huge data"
stores for everything except append-only log files.

> Dovecot supports both. It also indexes the mbox file (assuming that
> it is the only one modifiying it, according to ctime).

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of
diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.", Mr. Spock
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On 05/31/08 18:06, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 06:00:16PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 05/31/08 15:54, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
>>> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 04:00:26PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>>> On 05/27/08 15:27, Public Mailing Lists wrote:
>>>>> Would using mbox make it any better?
>>>> Depends on your definition of "better". uw-imapd and (maybe)
>>>> Dovecot support mbox-backed-IMAP, so maybe that's the route you
>>>> should take.
>>> uw-imapd supports mbox and an improved folder-in-a-file format called
>>> mbx.
>> And when you need to delete an email from the middle of an huge
>> sequential file?
>>
>> The bottom line is that sequential files are *bad* "huge data"
>> stores for everything except append-only log files.
>
> I didn't say it was optimal. I only said it was way better than
> non-indexed mbox.
>
> And then, of course, is the counter claim that maildir requires you many
> more system calls for the basic operation of scanning a mailbox, which
> is more common than modifying a mailbox.

That may be why searching a whole folder is so slow in Tbird &
courier-imapd. Or maybe not.

> (This is, at least, the opinion of Mark Crispin, last time I read him in
> a discussion on that topic)
>


- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of
diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.", Mr. Spock
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