Hal Vaughan wrote:
> Yes, it is an attack on the language, since the other discussion (in
> terms of software) is a matter of degree and freedom is slavery is
> dealing with exact opposites. (Where have I heard that phrase about
> freedom and slavery before?...)

Freedom is Slavery : Slogan in 1984 by George Orwell

Also:

War is Peace
Ignorance is Strength

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Mark Allums


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On Saturday 05 April 2008 01:18:23 pm Mark Allums wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > Yes, it is an attack on the language, since the other discussion (in
> > terms of software) is a matter of degree and freedom is slavery is
> > dealing with exact opposites. (Where have I heard that phrase about
> > freedom and slavery before?...)
>
> Freedom is Slavery : Slogan in 1984 by George Orwell
>
> Also:
>
> War is Peace
> Ignorance is Strength

So what is it when your mailer fails to include proper References:, thus
breaking threads, Mark? )

--
Paul Johnson
baloo@ursine.ca

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Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday 05 April 2008 01:18:23 pm Mark Allums wrote:
>> Hal Vaughan wrote:
>>> Yes, it is an attack on the language, since the other discussion (in
>>> terms of software) is a matter of degree and freedom is slavery is
>>> dealing with exact opposites. (Where have I heard that phrase about
>>> freedom and slavery before?...)
>> Freedom is Slavery : Slogan in 1984 by George Orwell
>>
>> Also:
>>
>> War is Peace
>> Ignorance is Strength
>
> So what is it when your mailer fails to include proper References:, thus
> breaking threads, Mark? )
>


It's not my mailer, it's me (I use Thunderbird/Mozilla/Icedove), and I
have to apologize for it. My habit is to hit the reply button, but that
doesn't work on this list. I used the reply button, when I should have
used the reply-all button. Sorry about this. I will try to find some
sticky notes and put a reminder on my monitor until I remember
automatically. I would really like it if this list were like all others
I am on/have ever been on, and used the reply-to field.

I wish that they would set it up to be like this:

From: the poster of the message
Sender: debian-user-bounces@lists.debian.org
Reply-to: debian-user@lists.debian.org
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
CC: other lists (crosspost)
BCC: other recipients

I will try to do better in the future.

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On Sat, Apr 05, 2008 at 03:57:27PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
> I would really like it if this list were like all others
> I am on/have ever been on, and used the reply-to field.
>
> I wish that they would set it up to be like this:
>
> From: the poster of the message
> Sender: debian-user-bounces@lists.debian.org
> Reply-to: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> CC: other lists (crosspost)
> BCC: other recipients
>
> I will try to do better in the future.
>

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

I have seen direct evidence of the problem inherent in reply-to
munging. We had a student reply to an email thinking she was replying
only to the instructor and instead sent her tearful sounding pleas to
the entire class list. Not cool. Much better to err on the side of
sending mail to fewer people than the opposite.


A

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Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 05, 2008 at 03:57:27PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
>>> I would really like it if this list were like all others I am
>>> on/have ever been on, and used the reply-to field.
>>>
>>> I wish that they would set it up to be like this:
>>>
>>> From: the poster of the message
>>> Sender: debian-user-bounces@lists.debian.org
>>> Reply-to: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>> CC: other lists (crosspost)
>>> BCC: other recipients
>>>
>>> I will try to do better in the future.
>>>
>>
>> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
>>
>> I have seen direct evidence of the problem inherent in reply-to
>> munging. We had a student reply to an email thinking she was replying
>> only to the instructor and instead sent her tearful sounding pleas to
>> the entire class list. Not cool. Much better to err on the side of
>> sending mail to fewer people than the opposite.

In that case, be prepared to receive lots more broken threads. And not
just from me. From every newcomer who's ever been on a list before.
Really, every other mailing list I participate in now, or in the past,
does it that way. The Debian lists are the exception, not the rule.

The student got a crash course in email settings. It's tough. That's
life.


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Mark Allums


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On Sat, Apr 05, 2008 at 04:46:41PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>>> On Sat, Apr 05, 2008 at 03:57:27PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
>>>> I would really like it if this list were like all others I am
>>>> on/have ever been on, and used the reply-to field.
>>>>
>>>> I wish that they would set it up to be like this:
>>>>
>>>> From: the poster of the message
>>>> Sender: debian-user-bounces@lists.debian.org
>>>> Reply-to: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>>> CC: other lists (crosspost)
>>>> BCC: other recipients
>>>>
>>>> I will try to do better in the future.
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
>>>
>>> I have seen direct evidence of the problem inherent in reply-to
>>> munging. We had a student reply to an email thinking she was replying
>>> only to the instructor and instead sent her tearful sounding pleas to
>>> the entire class list. Not cool. Much better to err on the side of
>>> sending mail to fewer people than the opposite.
>
> In that case, be prepared to receive lots more broken threads. And not
> just from me. From every newcomer who's ever been on a list before.

I anxiously await the flood of email.

> Really, every other mailing list I participate in now, or in the past,
> does it that way. The Debian lists are the exception, not the rule.

I thought I was just being ful in pointing out the logic behind
avoiding reply-to munging, but apparently not. Note please that most
people don't have this problem on this list. Those that do, quickly
adapt. Also, there is a reply-to-list extension of some kind for
t-bird.


>
> The student got a crash course in email settings. It's tough. That's
> life.

yeah, it's tough. It was also a simply avoided mistake. We all make
simple mistakes. One that is so simply avoidable should be, IMO. but
it's only that, my opinion.

this issue has been flogged to death on this list many times. Read the
archives. Sorry if I offended you. I will drop the subject.

A

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Mark Allums wrote:

>
> It's not my mailer, it's me (I use Thunderbird/Mozilla/Icedove), and I
> have to apologize for it.

Please be considerate to others and use an email client that is aware of
reply-to-list feature. From http://wiki.debian.org/ReplyToListEmailClients
there are many email clients such as kmail, sylpheed, mutt, claws-mail,
evolution etc., which respect this header.

IIRC, I think there is also an extension for icedove using which you can
make it "reply to list" aware.

> I would really like it if this list were like all others
> I am on/have ever been on, and used the reply-to field.

This issue had been discussed several times. Now matter how much it
inconveniences you, the Debian listmasters are firm upon not munging the
reply-to field. It does not matter how many other mailing lists munge the
reply to header. So you just have to get over it and start using a better
email client or try your luck with the extension for icedove.

hth
raju
--
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>
> this issue has been flogged to death on this list many times. Read the
> archives. Sorry if I offended you. I will drop the subject.

I am not offended. Thank you for the link. I will go there and read it
soon. If the issue has come up before, then there probably exist plenty
of people who think as I do.

I am a newcomer, and I hope I am not making a nuisance of myself. It
will take me some time to adjust to this community's conventions. Until
then, I would ask that the old-timers be tolerant of my ignorance.

I will check for that extension for Thunderbird. I will use it if I end
up needing it.

This list is full of smart people, and I like reading all the traffic.
Don't drop a subject because *I* might be offended. You might drop it
when there is nothing left that can be productively added. I will try
to restrain myself from posting something that doesn't add to the
discussion.

Sincerely,

Mark Allums


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