Hi,

This question has been nagging me every time I reply to some post. What
is the recommended way to reply to any message?

If I use "reply-to-all", icedove adds the original sender in the "To:"
field and the debian-user address in the "CC:" field. If I send it in
this way, will the sender receive two posts? I never received multiple
replies to any of my posts, so I think the list software probably
doesn't send out multiple copies to the same recipient. Am I correct in
assuming this?

In case I was mistaken, my apologies to everyone who has been spammed by
multiple mails from me

Or should I delete the sender's address from the list? I should probably
leave the sender's address as it is if they ask to be cc'd for not being
on the list. What about the other cases?

I know this question is fairly elementary, but thought I'd better get my
basics straight instead of continuing to annoy people with my ignorance.

Thanks & Regards,
Raj Kiran

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On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 07:30:49PM +0530, Raj Kiran Grandhi wrote:
> This question has been nagging me every time I reply to some post. What
> is the recommended way to reply to any message?
>
> If I use "reply-to-all", icedove adds the original sender in the "To:"
> field and the debian-user address in the "CC:" field. If I send it in
> this way, will the sender receive two posts? I never received multiple
> replies to any of my posts, so I think the list software probably
> doesn't send out multiple copies to the same recipient. Am I correct in
> assuming this?

No. If you send to two recipeints: the list and a person, the list
can't un-send your message to the person. You would have been sending
two. Mutt has a 'list reply' which only sends to the list. I don't
know about icedove.

>
> In case I was mistaken, my apologies to everyone who has been spammed by
> multiple mails from me
>
> Or should I delete the sender's address from the list? I should probably
> leave the sender's address as it is if they ask to be cc'd for not being
> on the list. What about the other cases?
>

Other cases: the code of conduct for debian lists says to just send to
the list.

> I know this question is fairly elementary, but thought I'd better get my
> basics straight instead of continuing to annoy people with my ignorance.

Thanks.

Doug.


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Raj Kiran Grandhi <grajkiran@gmail.com> writes:

> This question has been nagging me every time I reply to some
> post. What is the recommended way to reply to any message?

To reply to the list only, unless the sender wishes otherwise. See
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct.

> If I use "reply-to-all", icedove adds the original sender in the "To:"
> field and the debian-user address in the "CC:" field. If I send it in
> this way, will the sender receive two posts?

Assuming he is subscribed, yes.

> I never received multiple
> replies to any of my posts, so I think the list software probably
> doesn't send out multiple copies to the same recipient. Am I correct
> in assuming this?

No.

> In case I was mistaken, my apologies to everyone who has been spammed
> by multiple mails from me
>
> Or should I delete the sender's address from the list? I should
> probably leave the sender's address as it is if they ask to be cc'd
> for not being on the list. What about the other cases?

You should delete the sender's address and reply only to the list.

> I know this question is fairly elementary, but thought I'd better get
> my basics straight instead of continuing to annoy people with my
> ignorance.

There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
are even better, but they are difficult to set up. If you want to
stick to Thunderbird/Icedove, there is a "ReplyToList" extension at
http://alumnit.ca/wiki/index.php?pag...rbirdExtension,
but it does not seem to work with Thunderbird/Icedove 2, see
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=439369.

Cheers,
Sven


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Sven Joachim wrote:
>
> There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
> for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
> are even better, but they are difficult to set up. If you want to
> stick to Thunderbird/Icedove, there is a "ReplyToList" extension at
> http://alumnit.ca/wiki/index.php?pag...rbirdExtension,
> but it does not seem to work with Thunderbird/Icedove 2, see
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=439369.
>

I have tried that extension, but as you have pointed out, it doesn't
work with the version of icedove I am using. The bug report page says
that a patch has been applied to the source. So probably it will appear
in sid in a few days. I shall retry then.

Thank you for clearing it up!

Regards,
Rajkiran

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Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
>>
>> If I use "reply-to-all", icedove adds the original sender in the "To:"
>> field and the debian-user address in the "CC:" field. If I send it in
>> this way, will the sender receive two posts? I never received multiple
>> replies to any of my posts, so I think the list software probably
>> doesn't send out multiple copies to the same recipient. Am I correct in
>> assuming this?
>
> No. If you send to two recipeints: the list and a person, the list
> can't un-send your message to the person. You would have been sending
> two. Mutt has a 'list reply' which only sends to the list. I don't
> know about icedove.
>

Thank you Doug, I just noticed that when I hit reply-to-all, your email
did not appear in the "To:" list, and just the d-u list address
appeared. However, this was not the case with some other messages. What
I was thinking earlier was that if the list sees that the person in the
"To:" or "CC:" field is also subscribed to the list, then it refrains
from sending the message to that person, since they would have received
it "directly". From now on, I shall dutifully delete the additional
address before sending.

Thank you.
Raj Kiran

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Hi.

Raj Kiran Grandhi, 18.11.2007 15:45:
> Sven Joachim wrote:
>>
>> There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
>> for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
>> are even better, but they are difficult to set up. If you want to
>> stick to Thunderbird/Icedove, there is a "ReplyToList" extension at
>> http://alumnit.ca/wiki/index.php?pag...rbirdExtension,
>> but it does not seem to work with Thunderbird/Icedove 2, see
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=439369.
>>
>
> I have tried that extension, but as you have pointed out, it doesn't
> work with the version of icedove I am using. The bug report page says
> that a patch has been applied to the source. So probably it will appear
> in sid in a few days. I shall retry then.

Even after applying the patch the extension won’t work yet. The upstream author
is aware of this problem and working on it.


Regards, Mathias

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On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:34:27PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:

> There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
> for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
> are even better, but they are difficult to set up.

I'm wondering what is difficult about setting up mutt.

In /etc/Muttrc, the only change I made, other than to ignore some
headers, was

set record=""

so that I don't have a default sent folder.

and in ~/.muttrc, other than aliases for family, friends, and mailing
lists, I just have the subscribe lists for mailing lists, eg:

alias debian-user debian-user@lists.debian.org
subscribe debian-user@lists.debian.org


Thats it. I send mail and it goes to exim4 that sends it to my ISP as a
smarthost, and away it goes from there.

Sure, you can get fancy and have mutt or other things sort and slice,
dice, and cook the mail. I've never had the need.

Doug.


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On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 08:09:58PM +0530, Raj Kiran Grandhi wrote:
> Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
>>>
>>> If I use "reply-to-all", icedove adds the original sender in the "To:"
>>> field and the debian-user address in the "CC:" field. If I send it in
>>> this way, will the sender receive two posts? I never received multiple
>>> replies to any of my posts, so I think the list software probably doesn't
>>> send out multiple copies to the same recipient. Am I correct in assuming
>>> this?
>>
>> No. If you send to two recipeints: the list and a person, the list
>> can't un-send your message to the person. You would have been sending
>> two. Mutt has a 'list reply' which only sends to the list. I don't
>> know about icedove.
>>
>
> Thank you Doug, I just noticed that when I hit reply-to-all, your email did
> not appear in the "To:" list, and just the d-u list address appeared.

Because Doug has set "Mail-Followup-To: debian-user@lists.debian.org"

> However, this was not the case with some other messages. What I was
> thinking earlier was that if the list sees that the person in the
> "To:" or "CC:" field is also subscribed to the list, then it refrains
> from sending the message to that person, since they would have
> received it "directly". From now on, I shall dutifully delete the
> additional address before sending.

The list has no control over how you reply. If you send a message to the
list AND the poster your SMTP server (either local or at your ISP) will
send to messages: one to the list and one to the poster. The list has no
control over the first one.

Regards,
Andrei
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On Nov 18, 2007 9:12 AM, Douglas A. Tutty <dtutty@porchlight.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:34:27PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
>
> > There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
> > for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
> > are even better, but they are difficult to set up.
>
> I'm wondering what is difficult about setting up mutt.
>
> In /etc/Muttrc, the only change I made, other than to ignore some
> headers, was
>
> set record=""
>
> so that I don't have a default sent folder.
>
> and in ~/.muttrc, other than aliases for family, friends, and mailing
> lists, I just have the subscribe lists for mailing lists, eg:
>
> alias debian-user debian-user@lists.debian.org
> subscribe debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
>
> Thats it. I send mail and it goes to exim4 that sends it to my ISP as a
> smarthost, and away it goes from there.
>
> Sure, you can get fancy and have mutt or other things sort and slice,
> dice, and cook the mail. I've never had the need.

Lucky you. I have looked into using mutt, as I tend to be a CLI
junkie, but I found that would need to do a lot of customization
before I would enjoy using it. I would need to do much of the
customization all at once, before I started using it, and to really
make it worthwhile I also need to use it with imap, which means
my own mail server. Google now does imap, but I want my own
mail server for other reasons.

In my opinion, Mutt is quite a bit harder to start using than vim.
I have a longish vimrc, but the defaults worked well enough at
first, so all I had to do was memorize key bindings.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 10:48:29AM -0800, Kelly Clowers wrote:
> On Nov 18, 2007 9:12 AM, Douglas A. Tutty <dtutty@porchlight.ca> wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:34:27PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> >
> > > There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
> > > for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
> > > are even better, but they are difficult to set up.
> >
> > I'm wondering what is difficult about setting up mutt.
> >
> > In /etc/Muttrc, the only change I made, other than to ignore some
> > headers, was
> >
> > set record=""
> >
> > so that I don't have a default sent folder.
> >
> > and in ~/.muttrc, other than aliases for family, friends, and mailing
> > lists, I just have the subscribe lists for mailing lists, eg:
> >
> > alias debian-user debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > subscribe debian-user@lists.debian.org
> >
> >
> > Thats it. I send mail and it goes to exim4 that sends it to my ISP as a
> > smarthost, and away it goes from there.
> >
> > Sure, you can get fancy and have mutt or other things sort and slice,
> > dice, and cook the mail. I've never had the need.
>
> Lucky you. I have looked into using mutt, as I tend to be a CLI
> junkie, but I found that would need to do a lot of customization
> before I would enjoy using it. I would need to do much of the
> customization all at once, before I started using it, and to really
> make it worthwhile I also need to use it with imap, which means
> my own mail server. Google now does imap, but I want my own
> mail server for other reasons.
>
> In my opinion, Mutt is quite a bit harder to start using than vim.
> I have a longish vimrc, but the defaults worked well enough at
> first, so all I had to do was memorize key bindings.
>
mutt works fairly sensibly "out of the box" in my experience.

Also why do you say you'd have to use IMAP with mutt to get what you
want? Unless you need to be able to read (using mutt) your mail from
several different systems I don't see how it would you.

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On Nov 18, 2007 11:30 AM, Chris G <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 10:48:29AM -0800, Kelly Clowers wrote:
> > On Nov 18, 2007 9:12 AM, Douglas A. Tutty <dtutty@porchlight.ca> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:34:27PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> > >
> > > > There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
> > > > for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
> > > > are even better, but they are difficult to set up.
> > >
> > > I'm wondering what is difficult about setting up mutt.
> > >
> > > In /etc/Muttrc, the only change I made, other than to ignore some
> > > headers, was
> > >
> > > set record=""
> > >
> > > so that I don't have a default sent folder.
> > >
> > > and in ~/.muttrc, other than aliases for family, friends, and mailing
> > > lists, I just have the subscribe lists for mailing lists, eg:
> > >
> > > alias debian-user debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > > subscribe debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > >
> > >
> > > Thats it. I send mail and it goes to exim4 that sends it to my ISP as a
> > > smarthost, and away it goes from there.
> > >
> > > Sure, you can get fancy and have mutt or other things sort and slice,
> > > dice, and cook the mail. I've never had the need.
> >
> > Lucky you. I have looked into using mutt, as I tend to be a CLI
> > junkie, but I found that would need to do a lot of customization
> > before I would enjoy using it. I would need to do much of the
> > customization all at once, before I started using it, and to really
> > make it worthwhile I also need to use it with imap, which means
> > my own mail server. Google now does imap, but I want my own
> > mail server for other reasons.
> >
> > In my opinion, Mutt is quite a bit harder to start using than vim.
> > I have a longish vimrc, but the defaults worked well enough at
> > first, so all I had to do was memorize key bindings.
> >
> mutt works fairly sensibly "out of the box" in my experience.

I think I am just too picky about my email :-)

> Also why do you say you'd have to use IMAP with mutt to get what you
> want? Unless you need to be able to read (using mutt) your mail from
> several different systems I don't see how it would you.

I do want to access mail from different locations. I guess I could keep
mail locally and ssh to that machine, but I would rather have it on a
separate server.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 12:18:46PM -0800, Kelly Clowers wrote:
>
> > Also why do you say you'd have to use IMAP with mutt to get what you
> > want? Unless you need to be able to read (using mutt) your mail from
> > several different systems I don't see how it would you.
>
> I do want to access mail from different locations. I guess I could keep
> mail locally and ssh to that machine, but I would rather have it on a
> separate server.
>
That's what I do (ssh to my hosting provider where I have shell
access) and read my mail locally there using mutt.

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On 11/18/07 18:01, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 08:09:58PM +0530, Raj Kiran Grandhi wrote:
[snip]
>> Thank you Doug, I just noticed that when I hit reply-to-all, your email did
>> not appear in the "To:" list, and just the d-u list address appeared.
>
> Because Doug has set "Mail-Followup-To: debian-user@lists.debian.org"

How do you do that in tbird?

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On 2007-11-18 23:14 +0100, Ron Johnson wrote:

> On 11/18/07 18:01, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>> Because Doug has set "Mail-Followup-To: debian-user@lists.debian.org"
>
> How do you do that in tbird?

It is possible, but very inconvenient. Look at
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Custom_headers how to set this up. Note that

a) You can set up automatic custom headers based on your identity (email
address), but not on the recipient's address, AIUI. That means you
have to manually insert the header all the time, unless you use a
different address for each mailing list.

b) If you save a draft and edit it later, all your custom headers will
be lost, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195716.


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On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 08:01:42PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 08:09:58PM +0530, Raj Kiran Grandhi wrote:
> > Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If I use "reply-to-all", icedove adds the original sender in the "To:"
> >>> field and the debian-user address in the "CC:" field. If I send it in
> >>> this way, will the sender receive two posts? I never received multiple
> >>> replies to any of my posts, so I think the list software probably doesn't
> >>> send out multiple copies to the same recipient. Am I correct in assuming
> >>> this?
> >>
> >> No. If you send to two recipeints: the list and a person, the list
> >> can't un-send your message to the person. You would have been sending
> >> two. Mutt has a 'list reply' which only sends to the list. I don't
> >> know about icedove.
> >>
> >
> > Thank you Doug, I just noticed that when I hit reply-to-all, your email did
> > not appear in the "To:" list, and just the d-u list address appeared.
>
> Because Doug has set "Mail-Followup-To: debian-user@lists.debian.org"

Not intentionally. Perhaps mutt does that with my "subscribe
debian-..." directive in my .muttrc. I thought that the debian lists
did that.


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On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 09:48:55PM -0500, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

> > Because Doug has set "Mail-Followup-To: debian-user@lists.debian.org"
>
> Not intentionally. Perhaps mutt does that with my "subscribe
> debian-..." directive in my .muttrc. I thought that the debian lists
> did that.

Yep, mutt does it (i have no subscribe directive). The list AFAIK
doesn't add anything more than the standard List- headers,
Mail-Followup-To, Reply-To are user headers.

Regards,
Andrei
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Kelly Clowers <kelly.clowers@gmail.com>:
> On Nov 18, 2007 9:12 AM, Douglas A. Tutty <dtutty@porchlight.ca> wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 03:34:27PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
> >
> > > There is one tip I have for you: use a mailer that has better support
> > > for mailing lists than your current one, e.g. KMail. Mutt and Gnus
> > > are even better, but they are difficult to set up.
> >
> > I'm wondering what is difficult about setting up mutt.

I like mutt. I admit it's difficult to "personalize" it (fcc-hook,
folder-hook, charset-hook, save-hook, ...).

> > Sure, you can get fancy and have mutt or other things sort and slice,
> > dice, and cook the mail. I've never had the need.

I do. Fetchmail gets it, hands off to exim, passes to procmail, calls
bogofilter to inspect, ... ${Magic_Happens}

> Lucky you. I have looked into using mutt, as I tend to be a CLI
> junkie, but I found that would need to do a lot of customization
> before I would enjoy using it. I would need to do much of the
> customization all at once, before I started using it, and to really
> make it worthwhile I also need to use it with imap, which means

Mutt does IMAP protocol. No local imapd necessary. Just connect.

> In my opinion, Mutt is quite a bit harder to start using than vim.

You need to do more research. Yeah, mutt appreciates handholding,
just like any other puppy. It's really no more difficult than any
other puppy.


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