Hi Everyone

I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
as web- and mail-sever.
I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.

Question A:
Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
-NAT
-port forwarding

Question B:
Is it possible to install FREESCO on top of a commercial router
(hardware, e.g. linksys, netgear etc.)

Question C:
Any recommendations for Guides, HOWTOs about networking.

Question D:
Are there any mailing lists for conceptional discussions about Computers?

Cheers

Sam


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On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 04:07:00PM +0200, Samuel B?chler wrote:
> Hi Everyone
>
> I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
> desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
> as web- and mail-sever.
> I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>
> Question A:
> Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
> -NAT
> -port forwarding

Use your old desktop machine, just give it a second NIC to go to the
cable modem. Then install shorewall and read the shorewall-doc. I
should clarify this a bit: how old is the desktop machine? Debian now
needs at least a 486 and the installer needs 48 MB ram. If the desktop
is a 386 or has less ram, then you'll need either NetBSD or OpenBSD (24
MB ram).

>
> Question B:
> Is it possible to install FREESCO on top of a commercial router
> (hardware, e.g. linksys, netgear etc.)

What's FREESCO?

>
> Question C:
> Any recommendations for Guides, HOWTOs about networking.
>

debian-reference, linux-HOWTOs, shorewall-doc, harden-doc, man pages
(all available as debian packages).


> Question D:
> Are there any mailing lists for conceptional discussions about Computers?
>

If those computers run debian, this is it.

What you're wanting to do is something most of us do or have done. Once
you get this router/firewall set up, you can put things like dnsmasq on
it.

Enjoy,

Doug.


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On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 04:07:00PM +0200, Samuel B?chler wrote:
> Hi Everyone
>
> I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
> desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
> as web- and mail-sever.
> I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>
> Question A:
> Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
> -NAT
> -port forwarding

Use your old desktop machine, just give it a second NIC to go to the
cable modem. Then install shorewall and read the shorewall-doc. I
should clarify this a bit: how old is the desktop machine? Debian now
needs at least a 486 and the installer needs 48 MB ram. If the desktop
is a 386 or has less ram, then you'll need either NetBSD or OpenBSD (24
MB ram).

>
> Question B:
> Is it possible to install FREESCO on top of a commercial router
> (hardware, e.g. linksys, netgear etc.)

What's FREESCO?

>
> Question C:
> Any recommendations for Guides, HOWTOs about networking.
>

debian-reference, linux-HOWTOs, shorewall-doc, harden-doc, man pages
(all available as debian packages).


> Question D:
> Are there any mailing lists for conceptional discussions about Computers?
>

If those computers run debian, this is it.

What you're wanting to do is something most of us do or have done. Once
you get this router/firewall set up, you can put things like dnsmasq on
it.

Enjoy,

Doug.


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>> > I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
>> > desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
>> > as web- and mail-sever.
>> > I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>> >
>> > Question A:
>> > Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
>> > -NAT
>> > -port forwarding
>
> Use your old desktop machine, just give it a second NIC to go to the
> cable modem. Then install shorewall and read the shorewall-doc. I
> should clarify this a bit: how old is the desktop machine? Debian now
> needs at least a 486 and the installer needs 48 MB ram. If the desktop
> is a 386 or has less ram, then you'll need either NetBSD or OpenBSD (24
> MB ram).

Well - it isn't that old. It is a Compaq Desktop EN, Pentium III with
about 500MB RAM. But there is only one Ethernet-Connection which - I
guess - can be solved by using a Hub or Switch, isn't it?

I now got a Linksys WRT54GL to which Eric Reymond refers to in "Linksys
Blue Box Router HOWTO"[2].

>> Question B:
>> > Is it possible to install FREESCO on top of a commercial router
>> > (hardware, e.g. linksys, netgear etc.)
>
> What's FREESCO?

FREESCO is a NAT/firewall router/server based on Linux and runs on a
single 1.44MB floppy[1].

S.


[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/freesco
[2] http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linksys-Bl...WTO/index.html


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>> > I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
>> > desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
>> > as web- and mail-sever.
>> > I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>> >
>> > Question A:
>> > Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
>> > -NAT
>> > -port forwarding
>
> Use your old desktop machine, just give it a second NIC to go to the
> cable modem. Then install shorewall and read the shorewall-doc. I
> should clarify this a bit: how old is the desktop machine? Debian now
> needs at least a 486 and the installer needs 48 MB ram. If the desktop
> is a 386 or has less ram, then you'll need either NetBSD or OpenBSD (24
> MB ram).

Well - it isn't that old. It is a Compaq Desktop EN, Pentium III with
about 500MB RAM. But there is only one Ethernet-Connection which - I
guess - can be solved by using a Hub or Switch, isn't it?

I now got a Linksys WRT54GL to which Eric Reymond refers to in "Linksys
Blue Box Router HOWTO"[2].

>> Question B:
>> > Is it possible to install FREESCO on top of a commercial router
>> > (hardware, e.g. linksys, netgear etc.)
>
> What's FREESCO?

FREESCO is a NAT/firewall router/server based on Linux and runs on a
single 1.44MB floppy[1].

S.


[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/freesco
[2] http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linksys-Bl...WTO/index.html


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On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 07:30:22PM +0200, Samuel Bächler wrote:
>>> > I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old >
>>> desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such>
>>> as web- and mail-sever.
>>> > I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>>> > > Question A:
>>> > Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
>>> > -NAT
>>> > -port forwarding
>> Use your old desktop machine, just give it a second NIC to go to the
>> cable modem. Then install shorewall and read the shorewall-doc. I
>> should clarify this a bit: how old is the desktop machine? Debian now
>> needs at least a 486 and the installer needs 48 MB ram. If the desktop
>> is a 386 or has less ram, then you'll need either NetBSD or OpenBSD (24
>> MB ram).
>
> Well - it isn't that old. It is a Compaq Desktop EN, Pentium III with about
> 500MB RAM. But there is only one Ethernet-Connection which - I guess - can
> be solved by using a Hub or Switch, isn't it?

no. to use a desktop machine as a router, you need two network
connections: one for the local network to attach to and one for the
internet at large. The computer then routes packets appropriately and
functions as a firewall. Its very simple to setup and if you are
already planning to have the machine on all the time as a fileserver,
certainly makes sense. There are some possible security issues because
in theory a process on the file server could be compromised and bring
down your whole network, but that is the case with any router. Having
the machine function as a file server means there are more processes
running than on just a dedicated firewall resulting in the possibility
of more vulnerabilities. I happen to think the risk is pretty minimal
with just a little care.

Okay, yes, you would need a switch on the local side of the
machine...

>
> I now got a Linksys WRT54GL to which Eric Reymond refers to in "Linksys
> Blue Box Router HOWTO"[2].

That completely eliminates the need to do anything to the
fileserver. Just up it behind the firewall/router and be done with
it.

A

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On 8/6/07, Samuel Bächler <linux@boeser.ch> wrote:

<snip>

> I now got a Linksys WRT54GL to which Eric Reymond refers to in "Linksys
> Blue Box Router HOWTO"[2].
>
> >> Question B:
> >> > Is it possible to install FREESCO on top of a commercial router
> >> > (hardware, e.g. linksys, netgear etc.)
> >
> > What's FREESCO?
>
> FREESCO is a NAT/firewall router/server based on Linux and runs on a
> single 1.44MB floppy[1].

If you have a WRT54GL, and you want to use custom firmware, you
probably should use one of the disros designed specifically for it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54GL...mware_projects

I have never heard of freesco, and it seems to use kernel 2.0.39!
The WRT54GL firmwares use 2.4.x, AFAIK


Cheers,
Kelly

Samuel Bächler wrote:

> Hi Everyone
>
> I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
> desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
> as web- and mail-sever.
> I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>
> Question A:
> Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
> -NAT
> -port forwarding
>

I can vouch for Linksys WRT54G v 2. I dont know if the later versions are as
good as this. But this one does both the jobs you mentioned perfectly fine.
I also had a pretty bad experience with D-Link routers. The connection used
to drop after some time for no reason. However there are no such problems
with the wrt54g routers.

Another option is to get hold of some old hardware and build your own
router.

raju
--
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Samuel Bächler wrote:

> Hi Everyone
>
> I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
> desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
> as web- and mail-sever.
> I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>
> Question A:
> Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
> -NAT
> -port forwarding
>

I can vouch for Linksys WRT54G v 2. I dont know if the later versions are as
good as this. But this one does both the jobs you mentioned perfectly fine.
I also had a pretty bad experience with D-Link routers. The connection used
to drop after some time for no reason. However there are no such problems
with the wrt54g routers.

Another option is to get hold of some old hardware and build your own
router.

raju
--
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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On 08/06/07 11:22, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> Samuel Bächler wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone
>>
>> I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
>> desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
>> as web- and mail-sever.
>> I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
>>
>> Question A:
>> Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
>> -NAT
>> -port forwarding
>>
>
> I can vouch for Linksys WRT54G v 2. I dont know if the later versions are as
> good as this. But this one does both the jobs you mentioned perfectly fine.
> I also had a pretty bad experience with D-Link routers. The connection used
> to drop after some time for no reason. However there are no such problems
> with the wrt54g routers.
>
> Another option is to get hold of some old hardware and build your own
> router.

Now you want the WRT54GL. (Note the extra L, which means Linux.)
The WRT54G stopped using Linux in v5.0.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Ron Johnson :
>
> Now you want the WRT54GL. (Note the extra L, which means Linux.)
> The WRT54G stopped using Linux in v5.0.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G
>

Thank you Mr. Johnson for up-to-date information. The wikipedia link is
great.

raju

--
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 07:30:22PM +0200, Samuel B??chler wrote:
> >>> I want to improve my home network. I have got a Laptop and an old
> >>> desktop machine. I want to use the old desktop for server services such
> >>> as web- and mail-sever.
> >>> I am connected to the ISP using a cable modem.
> >>>
> >>> Question A:
> >>> Can someone recommend a router with the following properties:
> >>> -NAT
> >>> -port forwarding
> >
> >Use your old desktop machine, just give it a second NIC to go to the
> >cable modem. Then install shorewall and read the shorewall-doc. I
> >should clarify this a bit: how old is the desktop machine? Debian now
> >needs at least a 486 and the installer needs 48 MB ram. If the desktop
> >is a 386 or has less ram, then you'll need either NetBSD or OpenBSD (24
> >MB ram).
>
> Well - it isn't that old. It is a Compaq Desktop EN, Pentium III with
> about 500MB RAM. But there is only one Ethernet-Connection which - I
> guess - can be solved by using a Hub or Switch, isn't it?

Not if you want it to be a router. Buy a NIC; cheap ones based on
Realtek cost about $10. You have oodles of capacity for what you want.

>
> I now got a Linksys WRT54GL to which Eric Reymond refers to in "Linksys
> Blue Box Router HOWTO"[2].
>

Never had one.


> >>Question B:
> >>> Is it possible to install FREESCO on top of a commercial router
> >>> (hardware, e.g. linksys, netgear etc.)
> >
> >What's FREESCO?
>
> FREESCO is a NAT/firewall router/server based on Linux and runs on a
> single 1.44MB floppy[1].
>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/freesco
> [2] http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linksys-Bl...WTO/index.html
>

Your firewall will need to be totally up-to-date. If its a floppy
image, unless its up-to-date, I wouldn't trust it.

Doug.


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On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 08:45:21AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

> > Well - it isn't that old. It is a Compaq Desktop EN, Pentium III with about
> > 500MB RAM. But there is only one Ethernet-Connection which - I guess - can
> > be solved by using a Hub or Switch, isn't it?
>
> no. to use a desktop machine as a router, you need two network
> connections: one for the local network to attach to and one for the
> internet at large. The computer then routes packets appropriately and

I've read somewhere that it can be done with one card, but it's very
difficult to setup. Did you mean Deskpro EN? I've used one of those for
the very same purpose with Coyote Linux (also runs from a floppy). But I
put a cheapo Realtek based in one of the PCI slots (there are two if I'm
not mistaken). It's own card is on-board.

Regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)

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On Aug 6, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 08:45:21AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>
>>> Well - it isn't that old. It is a Compaq Desktop EN, Pentium III
>>> with about
>>> 500MB RAM. But there is only one Ethernet-Connection which - I
>>> guess - can
>>> be solved by using a Hub or Switch, isn't it?
>>
>> no. to use a desktop machine as a router, you need two network
>> connections: one for the local network to attach to and one for the
>> internet at large. The computer then routes packets appropriately and
>
> I've read somewhere that it can be done with one card, but it's very
> difficult to setup.

You can do it, by creating multiple IP aliases on the one adapter.
There are some caveats, though. For example, this likely won't work
very well if you plan to do DHCP on your local network. Other
protocols that use IP broadcasts can also get confused or get into
trouble. Other than that, it isn't necessarily *harder* to set up,
but it's more *confusing* to set up, if that makes sense.


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On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 01:49:08PM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:
> On Aug 6, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 08:45:21AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >
> >>no. to use a desktop machine as a router, you need two network
> >>connections: one for the local network to attach to and one for the
> >>internet at large. The computer then routes packets appropriately and
> >
> >I've read somewhere that it can be done with one card, but it's very
> >difficult to setup.
>
> You can do it, by creating multiple IP aliases on the one adapter.
> There are some caveats, though. For example, this likely won't work
> very well if you plan to do DHCP on your local network. Other
> protocols that use IP broadcasts can also get confused or get into
> trouble. Other than that, it isn't necessarily *harder* to set up,
> but it's more *confusing* to set up, if that makes sense.

If this box is going to be a firewall, even with IP aliases, isn't this
an issue? Is there no way for an attack to bypass the level 3 router by
doing something at a lower level?

Anyway, its too confusing to me, especially if its only to save buying a
cheap NIC.

Doug.


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On Aug 6, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> If this box is going to be a firewall, even with IP aliases, isn't
> this
> an issue? Is there no way for an attack to bypass the level 3
> router by
> doing something at a lower level?

Someone local to one of the two networks could send packets onto the
other. So yes, this hurts the security of your firewall.




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On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 12:59:42PM -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> Ron Johnson :
> >
> > Now you want the WRT54GL. (Note the extra L, which means Linux.)
> > The WRT54G stopped using Linux in v5.0.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G
> >
>
> Thank you Mr. Johnson for up-to-date information. The wikipedia link is
> great.
have a look at openwrt.org it is a distribution made for these devices, on
their wiki they have a list of hardware and compatibilities



>
> raju
>
> --
> Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
> http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
> http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/
>
>
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>

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>>> Well - it isn't that old. It is a Compaq Desktop EN, Pentium III with about
>>> > > 500MB RAM. But there is only one Ethernet-Connection which - I guess - can
>>> > > be solved by using a Hub or Switch, isn't it?
>> >
>> > no. to use a desktop machine as a router, you need two network
>> > connections: one for the local network to attach to and one for the
>> > internet at large. The computer then routes packets appropriately and
>
> I've read somewhere that it can be done with one card, but it's very
> difficult to setup. Did you mean Deskpro EN? I've used one of those for
> the very same purpose with Coyote Linux (also runs from a floppy). But I
> put a cheapo Realtek based in one of the PCI slots (there are two if I'm
> not mistaken). It's own card is on-board.

You are right - it is a Deskpro EN.


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