Is there a replacement for apt-listchanges, not written in python?

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Hi Vincent.

Vincent Lefevre, 05.08.2007 20:36:
> Is there a replacement for apt-listchanges, not written in python?

Not that I knew of. What’s the problem with apt-listchanges written in Python?


Regards, Mathias

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Hi Vincent.

Vincent Lefevre, 05.08.2007 20:36:
> Is there a replacement for apt-listchanges, not written in python?

Not that I knew of. What’s the problem with apt-listchanges written in Python?


Regards, Mathias

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On 2007-08-05 21:56:00 +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> Vincent Lefevre, 05.08.2007 20:36:
> > Is there a replacement for apt-listchanges, not written in python?
>
> Not that I knew of. What’s the problem with apt-listchanges written
> in Python?

Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in
case of such error, the error (though detectable) is ignored and the
packages are installed without any user confirmation. Displaying the
contents of new information of the NEWS file before the installation
of packages is very important, as there may be critical changes (there
have been such changes in exim4, but also in X11-related packages,
where old[*] drivers may have been removed).

Now, it seems that modifying /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20listchanges should
be a workaround (but I'm not very confident in such user-side changes,
as sooner or later they often lead to problems).
[*] but still necessary under some conditions.

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On 2007-08-05 21:56:00 +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> Vincent Lefevre, 05.08.2007 20:36:
> > Is there a replacement for apt-listchanges, not written in python?
>
> Not that I knew of. What’s the problem with apt-listchanges written
> in Python?

Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in
case of such error, the error (though detectable) is ignored and the
packages are installed without any user confirmation. Displaying the
contents of new information of the NEWS file before the installation
of packages is very important, as there may be critical changes (there
have been such changes in exim4, but also in X11-related packages,
where old[*] drivers may have been removed).

Now, it seems that modifying /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20listchanges should
be a workaround (but I'm not very confident in such user-side changes,
as sooner or later they often lead to problems).
[*] but still necessary under some conditions.

--
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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Arenaire project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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On 08/05/07 15:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 21:56:00 +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
>> Vincent Lefevre, 05.08.2007 20:36:
>>> Is there a replacement for apt-listchanges, not written in python?
>> Not that I knew of. What’s the problem with apt-listchanges written
>> in Python?
>
> Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in

????

Can you be more specific. It's been a while since I've seen it break.

> case of such error, the error (though detectable) is ignored and the
> packages are installed without any user confirmation. Displaying the
> contents of new information of the NEWS file before the installation
> of packages is very important, as there may be critical changes (there
> have been such changes in exim4, but also in X11-related packages,
> where old[*] drivers may have been removed).
>
> Now, it seems that modifying /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20listchanges should
> be a workaround (but I'm not very confident in such user-side changes,
> as sooner or later they often lead to problems).
>
>[*] but still necessary under some conditions.
>


- --
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Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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On 08/05/07 15:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 21:56:00 +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
>> Vincent Lefevre, 05.08.2007 20:36:
>>> Is there a replacement for apt-listchanges, not written in python?
>> Not that I knew of. What’s the problem with apt-listchanges written
>> in Python?
>
> Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in

????

Can you be more specific. It's been a while since I've seen it break.

> case of such error, the error (though detectable) is ignored and the
> packages are installed without any user confirmation. Displaying the
> contents of new information of the NEWS file before the installation
> of packages is very important, as there may be critical changes (there
> have been such changes in exim4, but also in X11-related packages,
> where old[*] drivers may have been removed).
>
> Now, it seems that modifying /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20listchanges should
> be a workaround (but I'm not very confident in such user-side changes,
> as sooner or later they often lead to problems).
>
>[*] but still necessary under some conditions.
>


- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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On 2007-08-05 16:53:44 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 08/05/07 15:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in
>
> ????
>
> Can you be more specific. It's been a while since I've seen it break.

It broke a few days ago:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=435674

(well, that's not the python core, but the problem was specific to
python, and the result was the same).

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On 2007-08-05 16:53:44 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 08/05/07 15:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in
>
> ????
>
> Can you be more specific. It's been a while since I've seen it break.

It broke a few days ago:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=435674

(well, that's not the python core, but the problem was specific to
python, and the result was the same).

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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
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On 08/05/07 17:08, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 16:53:44 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 08/05/07 15:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>>> Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in
>> ????
>>
>> Can you be more specific. It's been a while since I've seen it break.
>
> It broke a few days ago:
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=435674
>
> (well, that's not the python core, but the problem was specific to
> python, and the result was the same).

python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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On 08/05/07 17:08, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 16:53:44 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 08/05/07 15:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>>> Python breaks too often (at least on Debian). The problem is that in
>> ????
>>
>> Can you be more specific. It's been a while since I've seen it break.
>
> It broke a few days ago:
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=435674
>
> (well, that's not the python core, but the problem was specific to
> python, and the result was the same).

python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.

These kinds of answers really become annoying. Why should I if there
is a better solution?

--
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On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.

These kinds of answers really become annoying. Why should I if there
is a better solution?

--
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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
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Ron Johnson wrote:
> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.

Vincent Lefèvre writes:
> These kinds of answers really become annoying. Why should I if there is a
> better solution?

What is it?
--
--
John Hasler

Ron Johnson wrote:
> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.

Vincent Lefèvre writes:
> These kinds of answers really become annoying. Why should I if there is a
> better solution?

What is it?
--
--
John Hasler

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On 08/05/07 20:33, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
>> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.
>
> These kinds of answers really become annoying.

The truth sometimes is. You *really* ought to read the Unstable FAQ.

http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html

Especially question #5.

http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html#5

> Why should I if there
> is a better solution?

How diligently did you look for a better solution? What were your
results? Telling us that in your OP, along with bug #435674 tells
us that you are serious instead of a whiney Windows escapee.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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On 08/05/07 20:33, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
>> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.
>
> These kinds of answers really become annoying.

The truth sometimes is. You *really* ought to read the Unstable FAQ.

http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html

Especially question #5.

http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html#5

> Why should I if there
> is a better solution?

How diligently did you look for a better solution? What were your
results? Telling us that in your OP, along with bug #435674 tells
us that you are serious instead of a whiney Windows escapee.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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On 2007-08-05 21:21:21 -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Vincent Lefèvre writes:
> > These kinds of answers really become annoying. Why should I if
> > there is a better solution?
>
> What is it?

Just look at the subject of this thread.

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On 2007-08-05 21:21:21 -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Vincent Lefèvre writes:
> > These kinds of answers really become annoying. Why should I if
> > there is a better solution?
>
> What is it?

Just look at the subject of this thread.

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On 2007-08-05 23:01:24 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 08/05/07 20:33, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
> >> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.
> >
> > These kinds of answers really become annoying.
>
> The truth sometimes is. You *really* ought to read the Unstable FAQ.
>
> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html
>
> Especially question #5.
>
> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html#5

Please, could you make constructive answers? I know that things can
break. But they are ways to work around them (have you heard of fault
tolerance?). I've reported the problem. The bug was tagged as wontfix
because the maintainer of the package doesn't care that things can
break in other packages and prefers to return with an exit status of 0
even if the program failed (which is against what an exit status is
meant for).

> How diligently did you look for a better solution? What were your
> results? Telling us that in your OP, along with bug #435674 tells
> us that you are serious instead of a whiney Windows escapee.

You are getting ridiculous. FYI, I don't use Windows and have never
used Windows. If you don't have constructive remarks, please shut up.

--
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Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Arenaire project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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On 2007-08-05 23:01:24 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 08/05/07 20:33, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
> >> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.
> >
> > These kinds of answers really become annoying.
>
> The truth sometimes is. You *really* ought to read the Unstable FAQ.
>
> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html
>
> Especially question #5.
>
> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html#5

Please, could you make constructive answers? I know that things can
break. But they are ways to work around them (have you heard of fault
tolerance?). I've reported the problem. The bug was tagged as wontfix
because the maintainer of the package doesn't care that things can
break in other packages and prefers to return with an exit status of 0
even if the program failed (which is against what an exit status is
meant for).

> How diligently did you look for a better solution? What were your
> results? Telling us that in your OP, along with bug #435674 tells
> us that you are serious instead of a whiney Windows escapee.

You are getting ridiculous. FYI, I don't use Windows and have never
used Windows. If you don't have constructive remarks, please shut up.

--
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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
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Vincent Lefèvre writes:
> Just look at the subject of this thread.

Threads drift. What is your better solution to the general problem of
brokenness in Unstable?
--
John Hasler

John Hasler wrote:
> Vincent Lefèvre writes:
>> Just look at the subject of this thread.
>
> Threads drift. What is your better solution to the general problem of
> brokenness in Unstable?

Brokenness in Unstable:
1. Research Bugs + google lists.
2. If you find a hit apply the fix.
3. If not, wait a while and upgrade again.

Unstable being Unstable this is the best possible solution.
Has worked for years now.
I could try Etch, am awaiting arrival of the DVD. Maybe not :-)

While we're at it could the OP refrain from ad hominem replies please.


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On 08/06/07 04:18, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 23:01:24 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 08/05/07 20:33, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>>> On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>>> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
>>>> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.
>>> These kinds of answers really become annoying.
>> The truth sometimes is. You *really* ought to read the Unstable FAQ.
>>
>> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html
>>
>> Especially question #5.
>>
>> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html#5
>
> Please, could you make constructive answers? I know that things can
> break. But they are ways to work around them (have you heard of fault
> tolerance?).

Your original question was woefully lacking in detail.

> I've reported the problem. The bug was tagged as wontfix
> because the maintainer of the package doesn't care that things can
> break in other packages and prefers to return with an exit status of 0
> even if the program failed (which is against what an exit status is
> meant for).

Maybe you filed the bug against the wrong package?

What package did you file it against? apt?

Or maybe you now need to file a bug saying that "it" returns 0 even
in a failure condition.

>> How diligently did you look for a better solution? What were your
>> results? Telling us that in your OP, along with bug #435674 tells
>> us that you are serious instead of a whiney Windows escapee.
>
> You are getting ridiculous. FYI, I don't use Windows and have never
> used Windows. If you don't have constructive remarks, please shut up.

Next time, ask a better question.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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On 08/06/07 04:18, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2007-08-05 23:01:24 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 08/05/07 20:33, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>>> On 2007-08-05 17:46:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>>> python-apt broke, and was fixed soon after. Unless you are running
>>>> Stable, you are supposed to tolerate this kind of activity.
>>> These kinds of answers really become annoying.
>> The truth sometimes is. You *really* ought to read the Unstable FAQ.
>>
>> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html
>>
>> Especially question #5.
>>
>> http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html#5
>
> Please, could you make constructive answers? I know that things can
> break. But they are ways to work around them (have you heard of fault
> tolerance?).

Your original question was woefully lacking in detail.

> I've reported the problem. The bug was tagged as wontfix
> because the maintainer of the package doesn't care that things can
> break in other packages and prefers to return with an exit status of 0
> even if the program failed (which is against what an exit status is
> meant for).

Maybe you filed the bug against the wrong package?

What package did you file it against? apt?

Or maybe you now need to file a bug saying that "it" returns 0 even
in a failure condition.

>> How diligently did you look for a better solution? What were your
>> results? Telling us that in your OP, along with bug #435674 tells
>> us that you are serious instead of a whiney Windows escapee.
>
> You are getting ridiculous. FYI, I don't use Windows and have never
> used Windows. If you don't have constructive remarks, please shut up.

Next time, ask a better question.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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