Greetings,
I am aware that Iceweasel uses the same engine as Firefox for
the operation, however, there seems to be problems with using Iceweasel
on sites like Ebay. When you are creating an item to sell and you get to
the product description section, you do not get the essential style and
format menu that shows in Firefox.

Does anyone know why this would happen, or whether they have had the
same problem and managed to overcome this??

Many thanks. It's a bit hard to explain to the misses that firefox and
iceweasel are the same, when they clearly are not !! 8-)


--
Regards & Best 73,

Stef Daniels VK5HSX - (OpenPGP: 0x828E2EB0)
Amateur Radio Station
Adelaide, Sth Australia - (vk5hsx@wia.org.au)
Member South Coast ARC Inc. - (www.scarc.org.au)
Member Wireless Inst. of Aust - (www.wia.org.au)


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Stef Daniels VK5HSX wrote:
> Greetings,
> I am aware that Iceweasel uses the same engine as Firefox for
> the operation, however, there seems to be problems with using Iceweasel
> on sites like Ebay. When you are creating an item to sell and you get to
> the product description section, you do not get the essential style and
> format menu that shows in Firefox.
>
> Does anyone know why this would happen, or whether they have had the
> same problem and managed to overcome this??
>
> Many thanks. It's a bit hard to explain to the misses that firefox and
> iceweasel are the same, when they clearly are not !! 8-)
>
>
What changed is the name and logo in compilation time, nothing else,
maybe eBay makes a check of the browser header and don't recognize it.
(I doubt it because the header is the same, even the process name!)

Regards,
Jose Luis.
--

ghostbar on Linux/Debian 'sid' x86_64-SMP - #382503
Weblog: http://ghostbar.ath.cx/ - http://linuxtachira.org
http://debian.org.ve - irc.debian.org #debian-ve #debian-devel-es
San Cristóbal, Venezuela. http://chaslug.org.ve
Fingerprint = 3E7D 4267 AFD5 2407 2A37 20AC 38A0 AD5B CACA B118


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Stef Daniels VK5HSX wrote:
> Greetings,
> I am aware that Iceweasel uses the same engine as Firefox for
> the operation, however, there seems to be problems with using Iceweasel
> on sites like Ebay. When you are creating an item to sell and you get to
> the product description section, you do not get the essential style and
> format menu that shows in Firefox.
>
> Does anyone know why this would happen, or whether they have had the
> same problem and managed to overcome this??
>
> Many thanks. It's a bit hard to explain to the misses that firefox and
> iceweasel are the same, when they clearly are not !! 8-)
>
>
What changed is the name and logo in compilation time, nothing else,
maybe eBay makes a check of the browser header and don't recognize it.
(I doubt it because the header is the same, even the process name!)

Regards,
Jose Luis.
--

ghostbar on Linux/Debian 'sid' x86_64-SMP - #382503
Weblog: http://ghostbar.ath.cx/ - http://linuxtachira.org
http://debian.org.ve - irc.debian.org #debian-ve #debian-devel-es
San Cristóbal, Venezuela. http://chaslug.org.ve
Fingerprint = 3E7D 4267 AFD5 2407 2A37 20AC 38A0 AD5B CACA B118


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Jose Luis Rivas Contreras wrote:
<snipped>
> What changed is the name and logo in compilation time, nothing else

also be aware that some extensions don't like Iceweasel as opposed to
FireFox or SwiftFox. this will hopefully change in the near future
since i suspect that it is looking for some type of "signature" or
browser ID to be passed along.


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Jose Luis Rivas Contreras wrote:
<snipped>
> What changed is the name and logo in compilation time, nothing else

also be aware that some extensions don't like Iceweasel as opposed to
FireFox or SwiftFox. this will hopefully change in the near future
since i suspect that it is looking for some type of "signature" or
browser ID to be passed along.


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Hi Stef.

Are you a Windows user?


Regards, Ma*scnr*thias


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On 7/30/07, Stef Daniels VK5HSX <vk5hsx@wia.org.au> wrote:
> Greetings,
> I am aware that Iceweasel uses the same engine as Firefox for
> the operation, however, there seems to be problems with using Iceweasel
> on sites like Ebay. When you are creating an item to sell and you get to
> the product description section, you do not get the essential style and
> format menu that shows in Firefox.

Go to about:config in Iceweasel.

Change the preference general.useragent.extra.firefox from
"Iceweasel/2.0.0.5" (or whatever your version is to "Firefox/2.0.0.5".

Then web sites won't be able to tell the difference, and FWIW you
should report the web site to it's owners as broken. User-agent
detection is broken behavior.

As far as extensions are concerned I have yet to run into an extension
that would not work in Iceweasel that works in Firefox. Again, if it's
making a distinction, it's broken behavior that should be reported to
the author(s) as a bug.

--
Andrew Barr

We matter more than pounds and pence,
your economic theory makes no sense...


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Stef Daniels VK5HSX wrote:
> Greetings,
> I am aware that Iceweasel uses the same engine as Firefox for
> the operation, however, there seems to be problems with using Iceweasel
> on sites like Ebay. When you are creating an item to sell and you get to
> the product description section, you do not get the essential style and
> format menu that shows in Firefox.
>
> Does anyone know why this would happen, or whether they have had the
> same problem and managed to overcome this??
>
> Many thanks. It's a bit hard to explain to the misses that firefox and
> iceweasel are the same, when they clearly are not !! 8-)
>
>
As far as I know, Iceweasel is Firefox without the "Talkback" component,
which is not open and matches debian-philosophy.


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Stef Daniels VK5HSX wrote:
> Greetings,
> I am aware that Iceweasel uses the same engine as Firefox for
> the operation, however, there seems to be problems with using Iceweasel
> on sites like Ebay. When you are creating an item to sell and you get to
> the product description section, you do not get the essential style and
> format menu that shows in Firefox.
>
> Does anyone know why this would happen, or whether they have had the
> same problem and managed to overcome this??
>
> Many thanks. It's a bit hard to explain to the misses that firefox and
> iceweasel are the same, when they clearly are not !! 8-)
>
>
As far as I know, Iceweasel is Firefox without the "Talkback" component,
which is not open and matches debian-philosophy.


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On Jul 30, 8:30 pm, arijit sarkar <arijit.2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As far as I know, Iceweasel is Firefox without the "Talkback" component,
> which is not open and matches debian-philosophy.

The name and logo are also nonfree in Firefox.


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Hi Andrew,

On Mon, 2007-07-30 at 13:25 -0400, Andrew J. Barr wrote:
> On 7/30/07, Stef Daniels VK5HSX <vk5hsx@wia.org.au> wrote:
> > Greetings,
> > I am aware that Iceweasel uses the same engine as Firefox for
> > the operation, however, there seems to be problems with using Iceweasel
> > on sites like Ebay. When you are creating an item to sell and you get to
> > the product description section, you do not get the essential style and
> > format menu that shows in Firefox.
>
> Go to about:config in Iceweasel.
>
> Change the preference general.useragent.extra.firefox from
> "Iceweasel/2.0.0.5" (or whatever your version is to "Firefox/2.0.0.5".

Worked like a treat, thanks!!

> Then web sites won't be able to tell the difference, and FWIW you
> should report the web site to it's owners as broken. User-agent
> detection is broken behavior.

I feel it's the website not knowing the browser, hense, unable to render
the page properly. Thanks.

> As far as extensions are concerned I have yet to run into an extension
> that would not work in Iceweasel that works in Firefox. Again, if it's
> making a distinction, it's broken behavior that should be reported to
> the author(s) as a bug.
>
--
Regards & Best 73,

Stef Daniels VK5HSX - (OpenPGP: 0x828E2EB0)
Amateur Radio Station
Adelaide, Sth Australia - (vk5hsx@wia.org.au)
Member South Coast ARC Inc. - (www.scarc.org.au)
Member Wireless Inst. of Aust - (www.wia.org.au)


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Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Jul 30, 8:30 pm, arijit sarkar <arijit.2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> As far as I know, Iceweasel is Firefox without the "Talkback" component,
>> which is not open and matches debian-philosophy.
>>
>
> The name and logo are also nonfree in Firefox.
>
>
thanks for the correction.


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Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Jul 30, 8:30 pm, arijit sarkar <arijit.2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> As far as I know, Iceweasel is Firefox without the "Talkback" component,
>> which is not open and matches debian-philosophy.
>>
>
> The name and logo are also nonfree in Firefox.
>
>
thanks for the correction.


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On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 10:55:45AM -0500, Anson Gardner wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Change the preference general.useragent.extra.firefox from
> > > "Iceweasel/2.0.0.5" (or whatever your version is to "Firefox/2.0.0.5".
> >
> > Worked like a treat, thanks!!
> >
> > > Then web sites won't be able to tell the difference, and FWIW you
> > > should report the web site to it's owners as broken. User-agent
> > > detection is broken behavior.
> >
> > I feel it's the website not knowing the browser, hense, unable to render
> > the page properly. Thanks.
> >
>
> Not to get all gripey or anything, but there are web standards for precisely
> this reason. See http://www.w3.org

Having just put together my first real webpage (still pretty basic)
let me tell you (I'm sure you know) its a royal PITA. I've had to make
an extra stylesheet just for stupid IE and then put a check for IE in
the headers. Thankfully it was pretty simple and I end up with a page
that renders "okay" in IE and looks great in everything else. I told
my "customer" (heh, step-mother) that if it got any more complicated
that I wasn't going to support IE and we'd just put up a redirect to
mozilla. She doesn't understand but, what can you do. I'm not going to
go down that road.

A


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On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 04:39:47PM +0930, Stef Daniels VK5HSX wrote:

> > Then web sites won't be able to tell the difference, and FWIW you
> > should report the web site to it's owners as broken. User-agent
> > detection is broken behavior.
>
> I feel it's the website not knowing the browser, hense, unable to render
> the page properly. Thanks.

IIUC websites shouldn't care about/need to know what browser is used, as
long as they are following the standards.

Regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)

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> >
> > Change the preference general.useragent.extra.firefox from
> > "Iceweasel/2.0.0.5" (or whatever your version is to "Firefox/2.0.0.5".
>
> Worked like a treat, thanks!!
>
> > Then web sites won't be able to tell the difference, and FWIW you
> > should report the web site to it's owners as broken. User-agent
> > detection is broken behavior.
>
> I feel it's the website not knowing the browser, hense, unable to render
> the page properly. Thanks.
>

Not to get all gripey or anything, but there are web standards for precisely
this reason. See http://www.w3.org

Regards,

Anson Gardner


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Hi Andrew.

Andrew Sackville-West, 31.07.2007 18:25:
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 10:55:45AM -0500, Anson Gardner wrote:
>>>> Change the preference general.useragent.extra.firefox from
>>>> "Iceweasel/2.0.0.5" (or whatever your version is to "Firefox/2.0.0.5".
>>> Worked like a treat, thanks!!
>>>
>>>> Then web sites won't be able to tell the difference, and FWIW you
>>>> should report the web site to it's owners as broken. User-agent
>>>> detection is broken behavior.
>>> I feel it's the website not knowing the browser, hense, unable to render
>>> the page properly. Thanks.
>>>
>> Not to get all gripey or anything, but there are web standards for precisely
>> this reason. See http://www.w3.org
>
> Having just put together my first real webpage (still pretty basic)
> let me tell you (I'm sure you know) its a royal PITA. I've had to make
> an extra stylesheet just for stupid IE and then put a check for IE in
> the headers.

No good solution, since headers can be manipulated at will. You better use
Conditional Comments[0] which only IE’s > 5.0 understand.


Regards, Mathias


[0] http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx

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On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 06:45:17PM +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> Hi Andrew.
>
> Andrew Sackville-West, 31.07.2007 18:25:
> > On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 10:55:45AM -0500, Anson Gardner wrote:

...

> >>>
> >> Not to get all gripey or anything, but there are web standards for precisely
> >> this reason. See http://www.w3.org
> >
> > Having just put together my first real webpage (still pretty basic)
> > let me tell you (I'm sure you know) its a royal PITA. I've had to make
> > an extra stylesheet just for stupid IE and then put a check for IE in
> > the headers.
>
> No good solution, since headers can be manipulated at will. You better use
> Conditional Comments[0] which only IE’s > 5.0 understand.
>
>
> Regards, Mathias
>
>
> [0] http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx

how telling it is that the above link start with:

"One of the most common operations performed in a Web page is to detect
the browser type and version. Browser detection is performed to ensure
that the content presented to the browser is compatible and renders
correctly...."

anyway, what I'm doing is:

<!--[if lte IE 6]>
<link href="ie-web.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
<![endif]-->

within the <head> tag. It seems to work pretty well, and i suspect I'm
a victim of not knowing the right terminology. I also suspect, since I
don't have access to IE7, that it doesn't work properly for that.

A

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Hi Andrew.

Andrew Sackville-West, 31.07.2007 19:10:
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 06:45:17PM +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
>> Hi Andrew.
>>
>> Andrew Sackville-West, 31.07.2007 18:25:
>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 10:55:45AM -0500, Anson Gardner wrote:
>>>> Not to get all gripey or anything, but there are web standards for precisely
>>>> this reason. See http://www.w3.org
>>> Having just put together my first real webpage (still pretty basic)
>>> let me tell you (I'm sure you know) its a royal PITA. I've had to make
>>> an extra stylesheet just for stupid IE and then put a check for IE in
>>> the headers.
>> No good solution, since headers can be manipulated at will. You betteruse
>> Conditional Comments[0] which only IE’s > 5.0 understand.
>>
>> [0] http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx
>
> how telling it is that the above link start with:
>
> "One of the most common operations performed in a Web page is to detect
> the browser type and version. Browser detection is performed to ensure
> that the content presented to the browser is compatible and renders
> correctly...."
>
> anyway, what I'm doing is:
>
> <!--[if lte IE 6]>
> <link href="ie-web.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
> <![endif]-->

OK, so you are using CC’s.

> within the <head> tag. It seems to work pretty well, and i suspect I'm
> a victim of not knowing the right terminology. I also suspect, since I
> don't have access to IE7, that it doesn't work properly for that.

Heard about IEs4Linux[1]? It makes testing in IE7 pretty simple. (For IE7you
need the beta.)


Regards, Mathias

[1] http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page

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On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 07:30:16PM +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> Hi Andrew.
>
> Andrew Sackville-West, 31.07.2007 19:10:
> > On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 06:45:17PM +0200, Mathias Brodala wrote:
> >> Hi Andrew.
> >>
> >> Andrew Sackville-West, 31.07.2007 18:25:
> >>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 10:55:45AM -0500, Anson Gardner wrote:
> >>>> Not to get all gripey or anything, but there are web standards for precisely
> >>>> this reason. See http://www.w3.org
> >>> Having just put together my first real webpage (still pretty basic)
> >>> let me tell you (I'm sure you know) its a royal PITA. I've had to make
> >>> an extra stylesheet just for stupid IE and then put a check for IE in
> >>> the headers.
> >> No good solution, since headers can be manipulated at will. You betteruse
> >> Conditional Comments[0] which only IE’s > 5.0 understand.
> >>
> >> [0] http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx
> >
> > how telling it is that the above link start with:
> >
> > "One of the most common operations performed in a Web page is to detect
> > the browser type and version. Browser detection is performed to ensure
> > that the content presented to the browser is compatible and renders
> > correctly...."
> >
> > anyway, what I'm doing is:
> >
> > <!--[if lte IE 6]>
> > <link href="ie-web.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
> > <![endif]-->
>
> OK, so you are using CC’s.
>
> > within the <head> tag. It seems to work pretty well, and i suspect I'm
> > a victim of not knowing the right terminology. I also suspect, since I
> > don't have access to IE7, that it doesn't work properly for that.
>
> Heard about IEs4Linux[1]? It makes testing in IE7 pretty simple. (For IE7you
> need the beta.)

hmmm... very interesting but it makes my toes curl to think of
installing IE... What I really need to do it duplicate my windows qemu
image and upgrade IE in one of the two images. That makes me happier,
having that segregation...

thanks for the pointer though, I will research it more.

A

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On 07/31/2007 09:30 AM, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> IIUC websites shouldn't care about/need to know what browser is
> used, as long as they are following the standards.

You do understand correctly, but emphasis must be placed on the
word "shouldn't". Websites *should* not need to care or know
about what browser is used.

However, even following the standards, any site that reaches a
moderate level of design complexity will have issues on different
browsers.

As a programmer, I feel icky having to tailor a site to different
browsers. It feels like a "hack" to me, and I hate hacks. Instead
I do the following:

1. Change the design so I do not have the problem.
2. Accept that it will not display the same on all browsers.
3. Make sure it if functional on all browsers.

--
Glen


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Glen Pfeiffer writes:
> Accept that it will not display the same on all browsers.

Why do you think it should display the same on all browsers? Or even on
all instances of the same browser?
--
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> hmmm... very interesting but it makes my toes curl to think of
> installing IE... What I really need to do it duplicate my windows qemu
> image and upgrade IE in one of the two images. That makes me happier,
> having that segregation...

No need for VM image duplication. That wastes disk space, and besides
most virtualization software has features to intelligently deal with
the scenario you find yourself in.

If you want to use Wine, consider using the WINEPREFIX environment
variable, which allows you to have multiple, isolated Wine instances,
each with their own C: drive and registry. Codeweavers use this as the
basis of their "bottles" technology in CrossOver.

If you want full virtualization, you could consider VirtualBox for
your Windows VM, it supports snapshotting and has a FOSS version. The
GUI makes this pretty straightforward. Finally, you could create a new
QEMU image using your existing image as the backing for a new
snapshot. I can't remember how to do this exactly but QEMU has very
good documentation.

--
Andrew Barr

We matter more than pounds and pence,
your economic theory makes no sense...


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On 07/31/2007 01:50 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> Glen Pfeiffer writes:
>> Accept that it will not display the same on all browsers.
>
> Why do you think it should display the same on all browsers?
> Or even on all instances of the same browser?

Oh, I don't. But there are certain types of designs that only
look good in their original form. Hence number one from my list:

>> 1. Change the design so I do not have the problem.

But it is a very common problem among graphic designers and
corporate types.

--
Glen


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On Jul 31, 9:30 am, Andrew Sackville-West
<and...@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 10:55:45AM -0500, Anson Gardner wrote:
>
> > > > Change the preference general.useragent.extra.firefox from
> > > > "Iceweasel/2.0.0.5" (or whatever your version is to "Firefox/2.0.0.5".
>
> > > Worked like a treat, thanks!!
>
> > > > Then web sites won't be able to tell the difference, and FWIW you
> > > > should report the web site to it's owners as broken. User-agent
> > > > detection is broken behavior.
>
> > > I feel it's the website not knowing the browser, hense, unable to render
> > > the page properly. Thanks.
>
> > Not to get all gripey or anything, but there are web standards for precisely
> > this reason. Seehttp://www.w3.org
>
> Having just put together my first real webpage (still pretty basic)
> let me tell you (I'm sure you know) its a royal PITA. I've had to make
> an extra stylesheet just for stupid IE and then put a check for IE in
> the headers. Thankfully it was pretty simple and I end up with a page
> that renders "okay" in IE and looks great in everything else. I told
> my "customer" (heh, step-mother) that if it got any more complicated
> that I wasn't going to support IE and we'd just put up a redirect to
> mozilla. She doesn't understand but, what can you do. I'm not going to
> go down that road.

Why not just code to the standard instead of to a browser, do your
testing in an ACID compliant browser like Konqueror (instead of a
browser that can't render to the standard), and then call it good? If
it looks good there, it'll look just as good in any browser that
actually complies with the standard or does a reasonably good job
faking it?


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