not the only case, but a good example. I installed the program. it has
menu shortcuts. they don't do anything. This happens a lot. Why oh why?

similarly, if i type a command like "lynx" into my panel aplet, nothing
happens. I have to type it into terminal. so what is the point of the
aplet (xfce, default aplet).

I think i'm having more problems than most users, but I am learning very
quickly.

Thanks for ing


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On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 01:03:10PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> not the only case, but a good example. I installed the program. it has
> menu shortcuts. they don't do anything. This happens a lot. Why oh why?
>
> similarly, if i type a command like "lynx" into my panel aplet, nothing
> happens. I have to type it into terminal. so what is the point of the
> aplet (xfce, default aplet).
>
> I think i'm having more problems than most users, but I am learning very
> quickly.
>

What was the question?

Starting a thread in mid sentence is a good way to confuse those willing
to .

Lynx is a text interface. Why would you _not_ need a terminal for it?

Doug.


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Amy Templeton wrote:
> somethin2cool wrote:
>> Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect
>> it to launch lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command
>> lynx.
>
> xterm -e lynx
>
> Amy
>
>

Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
the default action. And it should be possible


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somethin2cool wrote:
> Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect
> it to launch lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command
> lynx.

xterm -e lynx

Amy


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Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:

>> similarly, if i type a command like "lynx" into my panel aplet, nothing
>> happens. I have to type it into terminal. so what is the point of the
>> aplet (xfce, default aplet).
>>

>
> Lynx is a text interface. Why would you _not_ need a terminal for it?
>
> Doug.
>
>

Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect it to launch
lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command lynx.

If I type "gimp", it launches gimp. I would like it to work with
terminal only aps as well


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On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 06:13:26PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
>
> Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
> terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
> the default action. And it should be possible
>
How do you propose that it know, in advance, whether an application will
need to do console output or graphical output?

Regards,

-Roberto

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On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 05:51:06PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
>
> >>similarly, if i type a command like "lynx" into my panel aplet, nothing
> >>happens. I have to type it into terminal. so what is the point of the
> >>aplet (xfce, default aplet).
> >>
>
> >
> >Lynx is a text interface. Why would you _not_ need a terminal for it?
> >
> >Doug.
> >
> >
>
> Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect it to launch
> lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command lynx.
>
> If I type "gimp", it launches gimp. I would like it to work with
> terminal only aps as well
>
>
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Ctrl-alt-F1 to get to your first text console

lynx http://www.google.com

just works.

It's a text mode browser - therefore it needs to be run from within
a terminal.

AndyC


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Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 06:13:26PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
>> Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
>> terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
>> the default action. And it should be possible
>>
> How do you propose that it know, in advance, whether an application will
> need to do console output or graphical output?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
If you can't see that then there is no point explaining it. Unless you
plan to implement the proposal?


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On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 11:02:42PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> >On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 06:13:26PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> >>Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
> >>terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
> >>the default action. And it should be possible
> >>
> >How do you propose that it know, in advance, whether an application will
> >need to do console output or graphical output?
> >
> >
> If you can't see that then there is no point explaining it. Unless you
> plan to implement the proposal?

Mr. TooCool (forgot first name):

Answer the question and stop acting like your email address.

Doug.


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On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 18:13 +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> Amy Templeton wrote:
> > somethin2cool wrote:
> >> Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect
> >> it to launch lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command
> >> lynx.
> >
> > xterm -e lynx
> >
> > Amy
> >
> >
>
> Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
> terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
> the default action. And it should be possible


Can't you just alias the command as above, so that when you execute
'lynx' it launches 'xterm -e lynx'?

Do you have more than one terminal app installed? How would it know
which terminal you want to use for any particular command? Or which
profile you want to use, if you have more than one? Some things I like
to run in a borderless, (pseudo-)transparent gnome-termimal; some things
in an xterm; some things in a regular gnome-terminal (default profile;
i.e., what starts when I just click on the terminal icon on my panel or
select "Terminal" from the Gnome Applications menu). You have to set up
your preferences.


--
Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions
of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to
dream." --S. Jackson


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Michael M. wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 18:13 +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
>> Amy Templeton wrote:
>>> somethin2cool wrote:
>>>> Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect
>>>> it to launch lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command
>>>> lynx.
>>> xterm -e lynx
>>>
>>> Amy
>>>
>>>
>> Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
>> terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
>> the default action. And it should be possible
>
>
> Can't you just alias the command as above, so that when you execute
> 'lynx' it launches 'xterm -e lynx'?
>
> Do you have more than one terminal app installed? How would it know
> which terminal you want to use for any particular command? Or which
> profile you want to use, if you have more than one? Some things I like
> to run in a borderless, (pseudo-)transparent gnome-termimal; some things
> in an xterm; some things in a regular gnome-terminal (default profile;
> i.e., what starts when I just click on the terminal icon on my panel or
> select "Terminal" from the Gnome Applications menu). You have to set up
> your preferences.
>
>
that is a good idea. however, i have another thread about making a
symlink, but all the responses involve real 1980s command solutions.
which, while fully capable of doing, i refuse to. when my friends see
this, they will laugh at a system which requires you to open a terminal
just to make a link (and rightly so). It takes longer to open a terminal
than it takes to right click

I'm sure the responses will be "this is linux, if you don't like it use
windows' and 'its free what do you expect' and 'linux is all about
terminal' ...these excuses just don't get old. It's 2007
t


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somethin2cool wrote:
[snip]
>>
>>
>> Can't you just alias the command as above, so that when you execute
>> 'lynx' it launches 'xterm -e lynx'?
>>
>> Do you have more than one terminal app installed? How would it know
>> which terminal you want to use for any particular command? Or which
>> profile you want to use, if you have more than one? Some things I like
>> to run in a borderless, (pseudo-)transparent gnome-termimal; some things
>> in an xterm; some things in a regular gnome-terminal (default profile;
>> i.e., what starts when I just click on the terminal icon on my panel or
>> select "Terminal" from the Gnome Applications menu). You have to set up
>> your preferences.
>>
>>
> that is a good idea. however, i have another thread about making a
> symlink, but all the responses involve real 1980s command solutions.
> which, while fully capable of doing, i refuse to. when my friends see
> this, they will laugh at a system which requires you to open a terminal
> just to make a link (and rightly so). It takes longer to open a terminal
> than it takes to right click
>
> I'm sure the responses will be "this is linux, if you don't like it use
> windows' and 'its free what do you expect' and 'linux is all about
> terminal' ...these excuses just don't get old. It's 2007
> t
>
>
Use KDE. Right click on somewhere on the desktop, choose new, choose
link. Hmm, sounds like windows to me, except they call it a shortcut.

Perhaps if you would use a different window manager you would have
better luck.

But remember what I said about your attitude? The above text is exactly
what I am talking about. Take a chill pill and ask questions, try
different software that may suit your tastes a bit better, but please
don't continue your rant about how this or that doesn't work like you
want it to. Don't like what you're using, then either switch to
something else or write your own software. Simple huh?

Joe

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On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 05:57:22AM -0700, Michael M. wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 18:13 +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> > Amy Templeton wrote:
> > > somethin2cool wrote:
> > >> Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect
> > >> it to launch lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command
> > >> lynx.
> > >
> > > xterm -e lynx
> > >
> > > Amy
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
> > terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
> > the default action. And it should be possible
>
>
> Can't you just alias the command as above, so that when you execute
> 'lynx' it launches 'xterm -e lynx'?
>
> Do you have more than one terminal app installed? How would it know
> which terminal you want to use for any particular command? Or which
> profile you want to use, if you have more than one? Some things I like
> to run in a borderless, (pseudo-)transparent gnome-termimal; some things
> in an xterm; some things in a regular gnome-terminal (default profile;
> i.e., what starts when I just click on the terminal icon on my panel or
> select "Terminal" from the Gnome Applications menu). You have to set up
> your preferences.
>

not to mention, lynx can be great for pulling a dump of a website for
parsing by some other program to pick out the right data and plug it
into something else. All of this can be done without a terminal at all
by using a cron job. I do this to get data from my cable modem as I'm
currently battling my provider over whose problem is causing my
outages. So I get a dump of the modem's diagnostics page and parse out
my signal strengths and put them in a file with time stamps for later
review.

The point is that there are so many different ways these
programs can be used that to make an assumption about how something is
used would be ridiculous. The user has to figure out how they want it
done and set it up that way. Then it will work exactly as they
expect.

A

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On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 02:28:06PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> that is a good idea. however, i have another thread about making a
> symlink, but all the responses involve real 1980s command solutions.
> which, while fully capable of doing, i refuse to. when my friends see
> this, they will laugh at a system which requires you to open a terminal
> just to make a link (and rightly so). It takes longer to open a terminal
> than it takes to right click
>
I find your comment histerical. You want to know why? Because you
think your friends will laugh at you for using a system where you are
required to open a terminal to create a symlink. I laugh at your
friends for using a system which can't even create a symlink unless you
get a third party application :-)

> I'm sure the responses will be "this is linux, if you don't like it use
> windows' and 'its free what do you expect' and 'linux is all about
> terminal' ...these excuses just don't get old. It's 2007
> t
>
Well, considering that the terminal is:

- more expressive
- more powerful
- more concise

I'd expect that more people would want to use it. However, this
insistence that a "point and drool" interface means progress is equally
annoying to me.

Regards,

-Roberto

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On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 07:53:55PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote:
> >
> Use KDE. Right click on somewhere on the desktop, choose new, choose
> link. Hmm, sounds like windows to me, except they call it a shortcut.
>
Actually, the windows "shortcut" is *not* a symlink. It is something
completely different.

Regards,

-Roberto

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Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 07:53:55PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote:
>> Use KDE. Right click on somewhere on the desktop, choose new, choose
>> link. Hmm, sounds like windows to me, except they call it a shortcut.
>>
> Actually, the windows "shortcut" is *not* a symlink. It is something
> completely different.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>

Yes, you're right. But from the user perspective they do the same
thing. IIRC, a shortcut is a file that has a .lnk extension that points
to another file. Kind of ironic that it uses .lnk.

In any event, I am getting quite tired of answering something2cool. If
there was anyone that needed to RTFM I would think it would be him.
Now, I have never told anyone to do that, and have been quite patient so
far, but if I see one more rant from him I will add him to my kill file
list so I won't have to read any more of them.

Joe

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Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 07:53:55PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote:
>> Use KDE. Right click on somewhere on the desktop, choose new, choose
>> link. Hmm, sounds like windows to me, except they call it a shortcut.
>>
> Actually, the windows "shortcut" is *not* a symlink. It is something
> completely different.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>

I know. symlinks are way better. in windows they're called... um.. well
something else and are a real pain to create. Before anyone says I'm
wrong and windows cannot do symlinks... I am not. I know alot about that
OS, and am not mistaken. If anyone WANTS to know, I will pull up the
details and post them


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Joe Hart wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 07:53:55PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote:
>>> Use KDE. Right click on somewhere on the desktop, choose new, choose
>>> link. Hmm, sounds like windows to me, except they call it a shortcut.
>>>
>> Actually, the windows "shortcut" is *not* a symlink. It is something
>> completely different.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Roberto
>>
>
> Yes, you're right. But from the user perspective they do the same
> thing. IIRC, a shortcut is a file that has a .lnk extension that points
> to another file. Kind of ironic that it uses .lnk.
>
> In any event, I am getting quite tired of answering something2cool. If
> there was anyone that needed to RTFM I would think it would be him.
> Now, I have never told anyone to do that, and have been quite patient so
> far, but if I see one more rant from him I will add him to my kill file
> list so I won't have to read any more of them.
>
> Joe
>
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>
>

and that is exaclty why the interface is underdeveloped. because you
take any criticism to heart and chose to ignore / forget it, rather than
do something about it.

The fact is that I will fix all these things myself as I learn the OS.
The other fact is that you've all been using it for years and haven't
bothered.

Then I'll release a distro, and it will be praised


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On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 09:00:38PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
>
> I know. symlinks are way better. in windows they're called... um.. well
> something else and are a real pain to create. Before anyone says I'm
> wrong and windows cannot do symlinks... I am not. I know alot about that
> OS, and am not mistaken. If anyone WANTS to know, I will pull up the
> details and post them
>
In windows they are called "junction points" and they require Windows
2000 and an NTFS partition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_junction_point

Regards,

-Roberto

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On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 09:03:33PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
>
> and that is exaclty why the interface is underdeveloped. because you
> take any criticism to heart and chose to ignore / forget it, rather than
> do something about it.
>
> The fact is that I will fix all these things myself as I learn the OS.
> The other fact is that you've all been using it for years and haven't
> bothered.
>
> Then I'll release a distro, and it will be praised
>
Except that no GUI or desktop environment can be all things to all
people. If it were possible, then KDE and GNOME would just merge and
release one super desktop.

The fact that you think you can fix all these "deficiencies" yourself
shows quite a bit of arrogance. I don't mean to say that it is not
possible to fix them. Rather, lots of extremely smart people have put
tremendous amounts of thought and effort into the desktop environments
that you see on the average Linux system. They have thought of most
everything at some point or another. That doesn't mean it is not
possible for you to do what you claim, just that the bar has been set
very high. Good luck.

Regards,

-Roberto

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somethin2cool wrote:
> Joe Hart wrote:
> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 07:53:55PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote:
>>>>> Use KDE. Right click on somewhere on the desktop, choose new, choose
>>>>> link. Hmm, sounds like windows to me, except they call it a shortcut.
>>>>>
>>>> Actually, the windows "shortcut" is *not* a symlink. It is something
>>>> completely different.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> -Roberto
>>>>
>
> Yes, you're right. But from the user perspective they do the same
> thing. IIRC, a shortcut is a file that has a .lnk extension that points
> to another file. Kind of ironic that it uses .lnk.
>
> In any event, I am getting quite tired of answering something2cool. If
> there was anyone that needed to RTFM I would think it would be him.
> Now, I have never told anyone to do that, and have been quite patient so
> far, but if I see one more rant from him I will add him to my kill file
> list so I won't have to read any more of them.
>
> Joe
>
>>
>>

> and that is exaclty why the interface is underdeveloped. because you
> take any criticism to heart and chose to ignore / forget it, rather than
> do something about it.

> The fact is that I will fix all these things myself as I learn the OS.
> The other fact is that you've all been using it for years and haven't
> bothered.

> Then I'll release a distro, and it will be praised

Now that is the right attitude. By all means, make your own
distribution. Make another Ubuntu or PCLOS. We don't mind. Some of us
might even want to try it. I'll even point you to a place where you
can get a jump start. Dreamlinux and their MKDistro utility.

http://www.dreamlinux.com.br/english/saiba-tutor.html

But you're barking up the wrong tree if you think we are supposed to do
something like fix things. This is the Debian-Users list, not the
Debian-Devel list. They are the ones that fix things. You can also
take your criticism to the developers of the programs that you think
need improving.

This list is for ing people who need (like you need with your
sluggish system) and for user discussion.

Joe


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Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/
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On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 02:28:06PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
>
> >
> that is a good idea. however, i have another thread about making a
> symlink, but all the responses involve real 1980s command solutions.
> which, while fully capable of doing, i refuse to. when my friends see
> this, they will laugh at a system which requires you to open a terminal
> just to make a link (and rightly so). It takes longer to open a terminal
> than it takes to right click
>
> I'm sure the responses will be "this is linux, if you don't like it use
> windows' and 'its free what do you expect' and 'linux is all about
> terminal' ...these excuses just don't get old. It's 2007

Right clicking requires that I take my hands off the keyboard, find the
mouse, figure out where to point it, find the mouse button, rememer if
its one click or two...

Ctrl-Alt-F1 is almost instantaneous.

If you refuse to use a terminal at some point you will be forced to
reinstall from scratch when X or your WM/DTE dies. Sounds like windows.
Or maybe the *buntus (don't know, haven't use either). What will you do
when your graphics card fries and you have to hook up a serial console
or ssh in? I know: put in a new card, X won't work with the config for
the old card, so you'll have to reinstall... Hope you made a backup.

We will not say "its free what do you expect". First, you missed a
comma. Second, it goes agains the whole philosophy of the free/open
software movement.

Its too bad the debian-instller team made an installer that runs X from
the outset and gives a DTE straight off on the i386 and amd64 platforms.
The old bootfloppies from Woody provided a self-screening tool. Anyone
who got it installed, configured mail, and got online, knew enough not
to complain about a CLI and new that a mouse was best used for xeyes.

Doug.




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On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 14:28 +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> Michael M. wrote:
> > On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 18:13 +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> >> Amy Templeton wrote:
> >>> somethin2cool wrote:
> >>>> Well, If I type "lynx" into <little-command-bar> I expect
> >>>> it to launch lynx. ie, launch a terminal with command
> >>>> lynx.
> >>> xterm -e lynx
> >>>
> >>> Amy
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Well, can't it just know that Lynx is installed and run it in a
> >> terminal? It can't run anywhere else, so one would think this would be
> >> the default action. And it should be possible
> >
> >
> > Can't you just alias the command as above, so that when you execute
> > 'lynx' it launches 'xterm -e lynx'?
> >
> > Do you have more than one terminal app installed? How would it know
> > which terminal you want to use for any particular command? Or which
> > profile you want to use, if you have more than one? Some things I like
> > to run in a borderless, (pseudo-)transparent gnome-termimal; some things
> > in an xterm; some things in a regular gnome-terminal (default profile;
> > i.e., what starts when I just click on the terminal icon on my panel or
> > select "Terminal" from the Gnome Applications menu). You have to set up
> > your preferences.
> >
> >
> that is a good idea. however, i have another thread about making a
> symlink, but all the responses involve real 1980s command solutions.
> which, while fully capable of doing, i refuse to. when my friends see
> this, they will laugh at a system which requires you to open a terminal
> just to make a link (and rightly so). It takes longer to open a terminal
> than it takes to right click


In GNOME, open Nautilus (the Gnome file manager), right-click on the
particular item you want to link to, and select "Make Link" from the
menu. Done.

GUI methods of creating symlinks are typically handled by file managers,
so it's really a matter of finding a file manager that does what you
want. The desktop enviroments (GNOME, KDE, XFCE) come with their own
file managers. Window managers typically don't, though some recommend
particular file managers and/or other apps, especially for users who
like the basics of the window manager in question but are missing some
particular capablilities.

If whatever you're using doesn't provide some functions you think would
be desirable, your best bets are either (1) find something that does
(either as a replacement for what you're using, or a supplement to it),
or (2) request that those functions be incorporated by the developers.
Another option would be to code it yourself and submit the patch to the
project. Even if your patch isn't accepted, you can always use it
yourself.


> I'm sure the responses will be "this is linux, if you don't like it use
> windows' and 'its free what do you expect' and 'linux is all about
> terminal' ...these excuses just don't get old. It's 2007


Well, my response is more along the lines of "diff'rent strokes for
diff'rent folks." :-)

Anyway, I happened to stop in at Powell's Technical Books Annex today
and I noticed a book called "Point and Click Linux," so I don't think
you're alone in preferring not to use a terminal. OTOH, you started off
mentioning lynx. Lynx runs in a terminal. You would have a pretty hard
time using lynx without a terminal!


--
Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions
of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to
dream." --S. Jackson


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On Sun, Apr 29, 2007 at 11:33:24AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> not to mention, lynx can be great for pulling a dump of a website for
> parsing by some other program to pick out the right data and plug it

Tip: try the "=" key in lynx when visiting a website.

--
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