On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 02:37:40 GMT
"s. keeling" <keeling@spots.ab.ca> wrote:

> Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com>:
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:56:14PM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:51:23PM -0400, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 08:32:33AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > > > Joe Hart writes:
> > > > > > if you're running Etch you won't be getting many, if you're running Lenny
> > > > > > (which is kind of hard because AFAIK it isn't all complete yet)
> > > > >
> > > > > Lenny (Testing) is complete. It just happens to be nearly identical to
> > > > > Etch at the moment.
> > > >
> > > > I've got a quick question, I'm wondering if I'm the only one: For some
> > > > reason my /etc/debian_version says I'm running "lenny/sid", I'm hoping
> > > > this is only temporary though?
> > > >
> > > > Not that I care what my version is called, but I'm just wondering. I
> > > > haven't been around long enough for a version upgrade yet.
> > >
> > > My Etch box (installed when etch was still testing) says 4.0.
> > >
> > > How did you end up with lenny/sid?
>
> Lenny is not Sid now. Sheesh. Don't further confuse the guy.
>
> > No idea, all I have is testing in my sources.list
> >
> > [pobega]$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
> > # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux testing _Etch_ - Official Snapshot i386
> > # NETINST Binary-1 20070107-08:41]/ etch contrib main
> >
> > > deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing main
> ......................................^^^^^^^
>
> Etch has gone stable. Lenny is the new testing. You're running
> testing (now Lenny).
>
> To avoid such surprises in the future, change any "testing" in
> /etc/apt/sources.list to "lenny". When Lenny goes stable (2012? :-),
> you'll continue to track Lenny, not "testing."
>
> Somebody in here's been posting with essentially that in his .sig for
> at least two months now. This is way old knowledge now.

My /etc/debian_version is 'lenny/sid'. My /etc/apt/sources.list
contains only references to Sid, and always did.

Celejar


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On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 02:37:40AM +0000, s. keeling wrote:
> Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > How did you end up with lenny/sid?
>
> Lenny is not Sid now. Sheesh. Don't further confuse the guy.
>
You never really run just Sid. If you run Sid, then you run
testing/unstable (or lenny/sid in this case). This is because as
packages propagate from unstable to testing, then they are no longer in
unstable. If you only have unstable in your sources.list, you will find
that you cannot install certain pacakges, as their dependencies will no
longer be available to you.

Regards,

-Roberto

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Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> You never really run just Sid. If you run Sid, then you run
> testing/unstable (or lenny/sid in this case). This is because as
> packages propagate from unstable to testing, then they are no longer in
> unstable. If you only have unstable in your sources.list, you will find
> that you cannot install certain pacakges, as their dependencies will no
> longer be available to you.

Of course this is 100% incorrect, packages are not removed from unstable
when they migrate to testing; packages in unstable don't have broken
dependencies on packages in testing.

Randomly speculating on the lists and passing it off as authoratative:
bad idea.

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On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 08:27:59AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > You never really run just Sid. If you run Sid, then you run
> > testing/unstable (or lenny/sid in this case). This is because as
> > packages propagate from unstable to testing, then they are no longer in
> > unstable. If you only have unstable in your sources.list, you will find
> > that you cannot install certain pacakges, as their dependencies will no
> > longer be available to you.
>
> Of course this is 100% incorrect, packages are not removed from unstable
> when they migrate to testing; packages in unstable don't have broken
> dependencies on packages in testing.
>
> Randomly speculating on the lists and passing it off as authoratative:
> bad idea.
>
I was told long ago (about four years ago now), by a friend whom I
consider to be very knowledgeable about Debian, that you can't run with
just unstable in your sources.list.

Having never had a reason to doubt him, that is how I have run my
machines on unstable.

If that is wrong, then I apologize.

Regards,

-Roberto

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Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> You never really run just Sid. If you run Sid, then you run
> testing/unstable (or lenny/sid in this case). This is because as
> packages propagate from unstable to testing, then they are no longer in
> unstable. If you only have unstable in your sources.list, you will find
> that you cannot install certain pacakges, as their dependencies will no
> longer be available to you.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>

???

ni@delete:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib



This is how I've run my laptop for several years (actually several laptops by now). I can't swear that I've never run into the
problem you're describing, as occasionally aptitude tells me that some package is uninstallable and I have to fiddle with
uninstalling, reinstalling and/or upgrading the specific dependency packages that are causing the problem, but this has never
really been much of a problem for me, and it's almost always just a matter of just a few minutes of fiddling with aptitude. Over
the years there may have been one or two times that I've chosen to simply wait a few days (or maybe a week at most) for some new
version of some package to be checked in so that I could then install what I wanted, but my memory is that this never happened to
any important package that affected my ability to use my laptop.

~c


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Roberto C. Sánchez writes:
> I was told long ago (about four years ago now), by a friend whom I
> consider to be very knowledgeable about Debian, that you can't run with
> just unstable in your sources.list.

I've been doing so for years.
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On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 08:46 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 08:27:59AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > > You never really run just Sid. If you run Sid, then you run
> > > testing/unstable (or lenny/sid in this case). This is because as
> > > packages propagate from unstable to testing, then they are no longer in
> > > unstable. If you only have unstable in your sources.list, you will find
> > > that you cannot install certain pacakges, as their dependencies will no
> > > longer be available to you.
> >
> > Of course this is 100% incorrect, packages are not removed from unstable
> > when they migrate to testing; packages in unstable don't have broken
> > dependencies on packages in testing.
> >
> > Randomly speculating on the lists and passing it off as authoratative:
> > bad idea.
> >
> I was told long ago (about four years ago now), by a friend whom I
> consider to be very knowledgeable about Debian, that you can't run with
> just unstable in your sources.list.

I have been running with JUST unstable for years.

I've also got experimental in there.
--
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On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 01:18:00PM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 08:46 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > >
> > I was told long ago (about four years ago now), by a friend whom I
> > consider to be very knowledgeable about Debian, that you can't run with
> > just unstable in your sources.list.
>
> I have been running with JUST unstable for years.
>
Well then. I guess I'll quite spreading disinformation :-)

Regards,

-Roberto

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Roberto � wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 01:18:00PM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:
>> On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 08:46 -0400, Roberto C. S�nchez wrote:
>>> I was told long ago (about four years ago now), by a friend whom I
>>> consider to be very knowledgeable about Debian, that you can't run with
>>> just unstable in your sources.list.
>> I have been running with JUST unstable for years.
>>
> Well then. I guess I'll quite spreading disinformation :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
Don't feel bad, I do it far more than you do. But in this case I knew
the correct answer, but others beat me to mentioning it.

Joe

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On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:08:06 +0200
Joe Hart <j.hart@orange.nl> wrote:

> You really should be specific to which version you're running. If
> you're running Sarge, you won't be getting many updates, if you're

A related observation/question. I have been tracking 'etch' (as opposed
to 'testing' for many months now, starting shortly after sarge became
stable. This is the first time, though, that I've gone through a distro
upgrade with debian (i.e., etch -> lenny) and since etch went stable
last week, I haven't gotten a lot of updates, not that I would have
expected that really. In fact, I have gotten 4. k9copy, libavccodecs,
that sort of thing, from an aptitude update && aptitude upgrade session
earlier this morning (Sat 14th).

I thought odd that I would be having 'holds' still, does that mean that
these packages will never get upgraded unless and until I replace
'etch' with 'lenny' in my sources.lst? And based on some prior list
input, it would seem that it would be best to let my box remain on etch
for some period of time before switching to lenny.

(snipped from earlier upgrade session)

dfox@m206-157:~$ sudo aptitude upgrade 2> /tmp/update.log
Password:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading extended state information
Initializing package states... Done
Reading task descriptions... Done
Building tag database... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
bind9-host dnsutils epiphany-browser ffmpeg firefox
firefox-gnome-support gnome-core gnome-desktop-environment gnomemeeting
gnupg initscripts k3b libavcodeccvs51 libavcodeccvs51-dev
libavformatcvs51 libavformatcvs51-dev libbind9-0 libfinance-quote-perl
libgpgme11 libisccfg1 libxalan2-java libxerces2-java liferea
liferea-gtkhtml linux-image-2.6-k7 mencoder mkisofs mplayer nautilus
nautilus-cd-burner nautilus-data sysvinit xfce4-panel

AIUI, this situation (kept back) is because some portion of the package
depends on something else that's either broken or not yet available.


> Joe



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On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 10:43:47AM -0700, "David E. Fox" <dfox@m206-157.dsl.tsoft.com> was heard to say:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:08:06 +0200
> Joe Hart <j.hart@orange.nl> wrote:
>
> > You really should be specific to which version you're running. If
> > you're running Sarge, you won't be getting many updates, if you're
>
> A related observation/question. I have been tracking 'etch' (as opposed
> to 'testing' for many months now, starting shortly after sarge became
> stable. This is the first time, though, that I've gone through a distro
> upgrade with debian (i.e., etch -> lenny) and since etch went stable
> last week, I haven't gotten a lot of updates, not that I would have
> expected that really. In fact, I have gotten 4. k9copy, libavccodecs,
> that sort of thing, from an aptitude update && aptitude upgrade session
> earlier this morning (Sat 14th).

"aptitude upgrade" will never install new packages or remove installed
packages. Invoking "dist-upgrade" will do what you want.

Daniel


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David E. Fox <dfox@m206-157.dsl.tsoft.com>:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:08:06 +0200
> Joe Hart <j.hart@orange.nl> wrote:
>
> > You really should be specific to which version you're running. If
> > you're running Sarge, you won't be getting many updates, if you're
>
> A related observation/question. I have been tracking 'etch' (as opposed
> to 'testing' for many months now, starting shortly after sarge became
> stable. This is the first time, though, that I've gone through a distro
> upgrade with debian (i.e., etch -> lenny) and since etch went stable
> last week, I haven't gotten a lot of updates, not that I would have
> [snip]
>
> I thought odd that I would be having 'holds' still, does that mean that
> these packages will never get upgraded unless and until I replace
> 'etch' with 'lenny' in my sources.lst? And based on some prior list

As it was explained to me, following an aptitude upgrade with aptitude
dist-upgrade solves this. Leave your sources.list as it is and do a
dist-upgrade. You can use the "-s/--simulate" switch to check out
what's going to happen without it really happening.


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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:05:08 -0400
Greg Folkert <greg@gregfolkert.net> wrote:

> "Lenny/Sid", it used to say "Etch/Sid" until about November of 2006. I
> am sure it will say Lenny/Sid until a few weeks until the (set, but not
> met) release of Lenny.

But what's the rationale behind that? I mean, at any one time, the
release is either Etch, or Lenny, or whatever comes next. Unless
someone has mixed sources (testing and unstable, like knoppix, mepis,
or other derived distros), it should be either etch, or lenny or
whatever. It shouldn't be Lenny/Sid. That implies mixed sources, and
it's a potential (and real) source of confusion.

>


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On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:30:41 GMT
"s. keeling" <keeling@spots.ab.ca> wrote:

> As it was explained to me, following an aptitude upgrade with aptitude
> dist-upgrade solves this. Leave your sources.list as it is and do a

OK, it seems to be installing those extras now.

It seems aptitude dist-upgrade has a few uses outside of upgrading one
release to the other.

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On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 11:27:50 -0700, David E. Fox wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:05:08 -0400 Greg Folkert wrote:
>
> > "Lenny/Sid", it used to say "Etch/Sid" until about November of 2006. I
> > am sure it will say Lenny/Sid until a few weeks until the (set, but not
> > met) release of Lenny.
>
> But what's the rationale behind that?

This is just a consequence of the fact that the package "base-files"
(which contains /etc/debian_version) is the same for Unstable and
Testing most of the time. As far as I know there is no mechanism to keep
different versions of this package in the two branches, unless one wants
to file some sort of semi-permanent blocking bug.

(I have a vague recollection that someone pointed this out already, but
this thread is now so chaotic that I cannot find the relevant message
quickly enough.)

> I mean, at any one time, the
> release is either Etch, or Lenny, or whatever comes next. Unless
> someone has mixed sources (testing and unstable, like knoppix, mepis,
> or other derived distros), it should be either etch, or lenny or
> whatever. It shouldn't be Lenny/Sid. That implies mixed sources, and
> it's a potential (and real) source of confusion.

It is at least less scary than "testing/unstable" which was the version
string for quite a while.

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On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:39:06 +0200
Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer@icfo.es> wrote:

> This is just a consequence of the fact that the package "base-files"
> (which contains /etc/debian_version) is the same for Unstable and

I see. Thanks for the explanation, it makes sense now.

> Florian


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