Not Debian-related at all, but you folks are brilliant, so I'll ask anyway.

A friend brought her HP Pavilion ze5170 laptop to me the other day; she
said her hard drive had died, and she ordered a new one, and on
installing it she could never get the System Restore CDs to restore the
system. She also wanted to set up the laptop to dual-boot with Debian,
which is why she brought it to me.

The System Recovery process boots and starts normally, but in the
partitioning step early in the process, it starts to run very slowly,
dropping to a crawl at "Verifying Partition" and never finishing even
after 36 hours.

So I've spent the last two days with it, trying the System Restore CDs,
manually modifying/formatting partitions, Knoppix, an older Etch CD and
one downloaded just today.

Basically, I've decided the drive was not the problem, but something in
the BIOS/mobo/controller.

I can install Etch, but on reboot, GRUB takes tens of minutes to make
any progress, and never, after hours of waiting, gets all the way to the
GRUB menu.

I can boot off of Knoppix and chroot into Etch and do anything I want. I
even installed LILO. So the drive is quite functional during "normal"
usage. But on rebooting, LILO exhibited similar behavior to that of GRUB.

In addition to the original drive she thought was bad (but seems fine
when put into another laptop), and the new drive, I also tried a third
drive. The laptop exhibited the same symptoms with each.

So the machine boots fine off and runs off the CD drive just fine.

It performs just fine during installation of Etch and running a chroot'd
environment.

But it won't boot off the hard drive, or get past the partitioning stage
of the Recovery CDs.

So I'm hoping some of you folks might know more precisely what is
causing this.

It seems that the IDE controller is fine, since the CDROM drive works,
and the drive works most of the time.

It seems that the mobo is fine.

The BIOS seems to function. (But she did mention that the BIOS does not
keep time; perhaps a dead BIOS battery (do laptops have those?) is
corrupting some boot-level code of the BIOS without making the BIOS
totally screwy?)

So what could explain these symptoms? (I don't expect a fix; I'm just
hoping for an explanation.)

Thanks!

--
Kent


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On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 22:49 -0500, Kent West wrote:
> Not Debian-related at all, but you folks are brilliant, so I'll ask anyway.
>
> A friend brought her HP Pavilion ze5170 laptop to me the other day; she
> said her hard drive had died, and she ordered a new one, and on
> installing it she could never get the System Restore CDs to restore the
> system. She also wanted to set up the laptop to dual-boot with Debian,
> which is why she brought it to me.
>
> The System Recovery process boots and starts normally, but in the
> partitioning step early in the process, it starts to run very slowly,
> dropping to a crawl at "Verifying Partition" and never finishing even
> after 36 hours.
>
> So I've spent the last two days with it, trying the System Restore CDs,
> manually modifying/formatting partitions, Knoppix, an older Etch CD and
> one downloaded just today.
>
> Basically, I've decided the drive was not the problem, but something in
> the BIOS/mobo/controller.
>
> I can install Etch, but on reboot, GRUB takes tens of minutes to make
> any progress, and never, after hours of waiting, gets all the way to the
> GRUB menu.
>
> I can boot off of Knoppix and chroot into Etch and do anything I want. I
> even installed LILO. So the drive is quite functional during "normal"
> usage. But on rebooting, LILO exhibited similar behavior to that of GRUB.
>
> In addition to the original drive she thought was bad (but seems fine
> when put into another laptop), and the new drive, I also tried a third
> drive. The laptop exhibited the same symptoms with each.
>
> So the machine boots fine off and runs off the CD drive just fine.
>
> It performs just fine during installation of Etch and running a chroot'd
> environment.
>
> But it won't boot off the hard drive, or get past the partitioning stage
> of the Recovery CDs.
>
> So I'm hoping some of you folks might know more precisely what is
> causing this.
>
> It seems that the IDE controller is fine, since the CDROM drive works,
> and the drive works most of the time.
>
> It seems that the mobo is fine.
>
> The BIOS seems to function. (But she did mention that the BIOS does not
> keep time; perhaps a dead BIOS battery (do laptops have those?) is
> corrupting some boot-level code of the BIOS without making the BIOS
> totally screwy?)
>
> So what could explain these symptoms? (I don't expect a fix; I'm just
> hoping for an explanation.)

Turn off the "SMART" for the drive and see what happens. Might be the
SMART to not SMART.

One other thing, if the drive is set to "auto" recognize, some of the
older BIOS for that laptop screw that up... even on drives already been
there for months.

You should force the settings rather than let the BIOS "auto" it.

also, you might want to try a BIOS/Firmware update on the laptop.

--
greg, greg@gregfolkert.net

Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 22:49 -0500, Kent West wrote:
> Not Debian-related at all, but you folks are brilliant, so I'll ask anyway.
>
> A friend brought her HP Pavilion ze5170 laptop to me the other day; she
> said her hard drive had died, and she ordered a new one, and on
> installing it she could never get the System Restore CDs to restore the
> system. She also wanted to set up the laptop to dual-boot with Debian,
> which is why she brought it to me.
>
> The System Recovery process boots and starts normally, but in the
> partitioning step early in the process, it starts to run very slowly,
> dropping to a crawl at "Verifying Partition" and never finishing even
> after 36 hours.
>
> So I've spent the last two days with it, trying the System Restore CDs,
> manually modifying/formatting partitions, Knoppix, an older Etch CD and
> one downloaded just today.
>
> Basically, I've decided the drive was not the problem, but something in
> the BIOS/mobo/controller.
>
> I can install Etch, but on reboot, GRUB takes tens of minutes to make
> any progress, and never, after hours of waiting, gets all the way to the
> GRUB menu.
>
> I can boot off of Knoppix and chroot into Etch and do anything I want. I
> even installed LILO. So the drive is quite functional during "normal"
> usage. But on rebooting, LILO exhibited similar behavior to that of GRUB.
>
> In addition to the original drive she thought was bad (but seems fine
> when put into another laptop), and the new drive, I also tried a third
> drive. The laptop exhibited the same symptoms with each.
>
> So the machine boots fine off and runs off the CD drive just fine.
>
> It performs just fine during installation of Etch and running a chroot'd
> environment.
>
> But it won't boot off the hard drive, or get past the partitioning stage
> of the Recovery CDs.
>
> So I'm hoping some of you folks might know more precisely what is
> causing this.
>
> It seems that the IDE controller is fine, since the CDROM drive works,
> and the drive works most of the time.
>
> It seems that the mobo is fine.
>
> The BIOS seems to function. (But she did mention that the BIOS does not
> keep time; perhaps a dead BIOS battery (do laptops have those?) is
> corrupting some boot-level code of the BIOS without making the BIOS
> totally screwy?)
>
> So what could explain these symptoms? (I don't expect a fix; I'm just
> hoping for an explanation.)

One other thing, I am seeing many reports of the DMA modes on that
particular laptop as being screwy. Many of the OEM repair groups I am a
part of say to "disable ultra DMA" on the primary drive. Of course the
OS can re-enable it after boot, which both Windows and Linux do. It is
just the auto section that screws with the booting.

She may not have a bad original hard drive either, as this screws up the
booting sequence for them as well.

Apparently, the machine comes from the factory with the "disable ultra
DMA" set. But if a BIOS reset happens it defaults to "disable ultra DMA"
unset or ultraDMA enabled for booting, which of course screws it up.
--
greg, greg@gregfolkert.net

Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Sheesh, hte more O look the more I discover... oh well. I'll clip this
time.
On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 22:49 -0500, Kent West wrote:
> Not Debian-related at all, but you folks are brilliant, so I'll ask anyway.
>
> A friend brought her HP Pavilion ze5170 laptop to me the other day; she
> said her hard drive had died, and she ordered a new one, and on
> installing it she could never get the System Restore CDs to restore the
> system. She also wanted to set up the laptop to dual-boot with Debian,
> which is why she brought it to me.

Original drive might be good.

> The BIOS seems to function. (But she did mention that the BIOS does not
> keep time; perhaps a dead BIOS battery (do laptops have those?) is
> corrupting some boot-level code of the BIOS without making the BIOS
> totally screwy?)

Yes, Laptops do have a battery for the BIOS. That maybe what kicked off
the problems in the first place.

> So what could explain these symptoms? (I don't expect a fix; I'm just
> hoping for an explanation.)

BIOS need an update and you still need to manually set the hard drive
specs and "disable the ultra DMA" to yes.

On top of that , the SMART functions on the ze5XXX laptops are a bit
awkward, so you might want to disable the smart stuff.
--
greg, greg@gregfolkert.net

Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Greg Folkert wrote:
> Sheesh, hte more O look the more I discover... oh well. I'll clip this
> time.

Thanks for all the ideas, Greg! They actually give me some hope. I'll
look at the machine again tomorrow and see what I discover.

--
Kent


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Greg Folkert wrote:
>
> Yes, Laptops do have a battery for the BIOS. That maybe what kicked off
> the problems in the first place.
>

That did occur to me when I saw the thread. My son's new motherboard
seemed completely unusable, sometimes the BIOS would see the drives,
sometimes not. Much of the time the POST wouldn't complete, even with
nothing attached to the board.

Putting in a new battery and making sure the CMOS was cleared at the
same time fixed it. Not a bit of trouble in several years since.


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Kent West wrote:
> Not Debian-related at all, but you folks are brilliant ....

Didn't I say you folks were brilliant?!

Thanks, Greg! Your hints to tinker with the drive's BIOS settings paid
off. Here's what I finally settled on that works:

LBA Mode = Enabled
32 Bit I/O = Enabled
Transfer Mode = Standard
Ultra DMA Mode = Disabled

btw, this BIOS would not let me access the SMART setting; it's enabled
with no option to disable it.

I've looked for a BIOS update and have been unable to find one; HP's web
site says that if I don't find one, there's not one available.

And to you and Joe, I'll look into replacing the BIOS battery also. Thanks!

Now, as soon as I get the system restored (which is going swimmingly -
W00t!), I'll boot into Knoppix, free up 2/3s of the drive, and then
install Etch. Swee-ee-eet!

Thanks, folks!

--
Kent


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On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 10:10 -0500, Kent West wrote:
> Kent West wrote:
> > Not Debian-related at all, but you folks are brilliant ....
>
> Didn't I say you folks were brilliant?!
>
> Thanks, Greg! Your hints to tinker with the drive's BIOS settings paid
> off. Here's what I finally settled on that works:
>
> LBA Mode = Enabled
> 32 Bit I/O = Enabled
> Transfer Mode = Standard
> Ultra DMA Mode = Disabled
>
> btw, this BIOS would not let me access the SMART setting; it's enabled
> with no option to disable it.
>
> I've looked for a BIOS update and have been unable to find one; HP's web
> site says that if I don't find one, there's not one available.
>
> And to you and Joe, I'll look into replacing the BIOS battery also. Thanks!
>
> Now, as soon as I get the system restored (which is going swimmingly -
> W00t!), I'll boot into Knoppix, free up 2/3s of the drive, and then
> install Etch. Swee-ee-eet!
>
> Thanks, folks!

At least *ONE* of the hints actually gave you the desired outcome.

You are welcome. I'll take my fee as contributions back to the
list... Which you do already.

Now if we could just get everyone to ask smart questions like you did
originally.

Of course you realize this will never happen.
--
greg, greg@gregfolkert.net

Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Kent West wrote:
> Kent West wrote:
>> [Laptop not booting from any hard drive, but fine from CD]
>
> Thanks, Greg! Your hints to tinker with the drive's BIOS settings paid
> off.
<snip>
> And to you and Joe, I'll look into replacing the BIOS battery also.
> Thanks!

Replaced the battery; the laptop seems to be working great now.

> Now, as soon as I get the system restored (which is going swimmingly -
> W00t!), I'll boot into Knoppix, free up 2/3s of the drive, and then
> install Etch. Swee-ee-eet!

Rather than booting into Knoppix and manually partitioning the drive for
an Etch install, I decided to try out the http://goodbye-microsoft.com
method.

Wow! That worked really sweet. From a freshly restored Windows XP Home
setup from the HP System Restore disks, I just went to this web site
(using IE, I think, *cough*) and clicked on the link. Shortly thereafter
I was installing Etch, and soon had a dual-boot setup. Amazing. Great
job, developers!


--
Kent West
http://kentwest.blogspot.com <http://kentwest.blogspot.com/>


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