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On Thursday 08 March 2007 23:12, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> was heard
to say:
> Do you really mean that societies
> are better off when governed by tyrants than when governed by
> democratically elected governments?

Actually, what I said was "monarchy and oligarchy", not "tyranny". As
any American who finds himself on the "no fly list" if tyranny cannot
happen with a democratically elected government, and they will assure
you it most certainly can.

> Do you think that this has been
> historically true WRT the actual tyrants and actual democratic
> governments that the world has experienced?

Again with the tyrants. If you want to compare tyrants and
non-tyrants, sure. Any non-tyrant is going to be better than a
tyrant, elected or not.

But if you want to compare _systems_, you could try looking at reviews
and excerpts of Hanse Hermann Hoppe's _Democracy, the God That
Failed_. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democra...od_That_Failed

Agree or disagree, it's always interesting when someone attacks one of
the present-day dogmas, like Galeleo saying the earth moved around
the sun, or Maddison saying that a limited government can be
restrained by a document that that same government enforces. :^)

Or that a massive software development can be accomplished without
deadlines and managers.

Curt-

- --
September 11th, 2001
The proudest day for gun control and central
planning advocates in American history

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Curt Howland wrote:

> On Thursday 08 March 2007 23:12, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> was heard
> to say:
>> Do you really mean that societies
>> are better off when governed by tyrants than when governed by
>> democratically elected governments?
>
> Actually, what I said was "monarchy and oligarchy", not "tyranny". As
> any American who finds himself on the "no fly list" if tyranny cannot
> happen with a democratically elected government, and they will assure
> you it most certainly can.

Eh, that assumes that pointless airport security, steep fares, harebrained
passport requirements applying only to air travel and utter lack of
customer service hasn't made flying an absolute last resort to get
someplace Amtrak/ViaRail Canada or a highway doesn't go to. Most people I
know don't bother with the airlines before because the train is more
convenient, cheaper and no appreciable difference in travel time over the
airlines for trips under about 1100 miles. Both the US and Canada have
pretty decent passenger rail service given the huge territory it has to
cover.



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On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 08:44:01 -0500
Curt Howland <Howland@priss.com> wrote:

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>
> On Thursday 08 March 2007 23:12, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> was heard
> to say:
> > Do you really mean that societies
> > are better off when governed by tyrants than when governed by
> > democratically elected governments?
>
> Actually, what I said was "monarchy and oligarchy", not "tyranny". As
> any American who finds himself on the "no fly list" if tyranny cannot
> happen with a democratically elected government, and they will assure
> you it most certainly can.

You certainly did mention tyranny; here's the quote:

> Democracy _sucks_. It makes all problems worse and solves nothing. At
> least in a monarchy or oligarchy, the ruler has some small incentive
> to pass on a prosperous nation to their successor. These "elected"
> examples of sewage have incentive only to take every bit of loot they
> can before their term in office is up.
>
> At least with a tyrant, they can't use the excuse, "Well, you elected
> me. You must _want_ the rape you get."

> Democracy works as a decision making process when it is voluntary,
> such as the Debian project. But then so does oligarchy (RedHat) and
> tyranny (Ubuntu, Slackware).
>
> The difference, as has been said many times before by better men than
> I, is coercion.


> > Do you think that this has been
> > historically true WRT the actual tyrants and actual democratic
> > governments that the world has experienced?
>
> Again with the tyrants. If you want to compare tyrants and
> non-tyrants, sure. Any non-tyrant is going to be better than a
> tyrant, elected or not.

*You* brought up tyrants, as above.

Celejar


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