On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:

> Quite a lot of off-topic opinionated political nonsense.

Look, guys -- you know who you are -- I (and others, most likely)
don't mind OT topics from time to time, and I/we can pretty easily
delete without reading, should I/we wish to do so. A certain amount is
tolerable, and I/we grant some slack because self-expression can be a
learning experience.

But: a fair number of posts reveal that the authors have quite a
shallow grasp of politics. Worse, many are written from an adolescent
ego-centered intent to prevail, even though there's no worthwhile
content added.

Think of it this way: would you like to have to wade through the views
of AOL members eager to vindicate their opinions about open source
software?

So give us a break, and instead of political drivel, get back to your
usual smart and insightful comments about Debian? Please?

--
JohnRChamplin@columbus.rr.com
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On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:36:59 -0500
John - <JohnRChamplin@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

> On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:
>
> > Quite a lot of off-topic opinionated political nonsense.
>
> Look, guys -- you know who you are -- I (and others, most likely)
> don't mind OT topics from time to time, and I/we can pretty easily
> delete without reading, should I/we wish to do so. A certain amount is
> tolerable, and I/we grant some slack because self-expression can be a
> learning experience.

Without taking sides on the issue of whether OT has gone too far or
whether we should just expect people to use filters and 'ignore
thread', I just want to point out that some of the OT'ers are among the
most knowledgable and prolifically ful of the posters on this list
(I obviously have no basis for judgement about lurkers), e.g Roberto
(my bias: he's apparently religious and anti-abortion, so I have a
natural sympathy with him ), and we should take that into account
when criticizing them.

> But: a fair number of posts reveal that the authors have quite a
> shallow grasp of politics. Worse, many are written from an adolescent
> ego-centered intent to prevail, even though there's no worthwhile
> content added.

Certainly true (although I wonder whether we agree which are the guilty
authors). I often wonder which is worse, politicians commenting on
technical issues, or engineers commenting on politics ...

> Think of it this way: would you like to have to wade through the views
> of AOL members eager to vindicate their opinions about open source
> software?
>
> So give us a break, and instead of political drivel, get back to your
> usual smart and insightful comments about Debian? Please?

Celejar


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On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 10:24:40AM -0500, Celejar wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:36:59 -0500
> John - <JohnRChamplin@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:
> >
> > > Quite a lot of off-topic opinionated political nonsense.
> >
> > Look, guys -- you know who you are -- I (and others, most likely)
> > don't mind OT topics from time to time, and I/we can pretty easily
> > delete without reading, should I/we wish to do so. A certain amount is
> > tolerable, and I/we grant some slack because self-expression can be a
> > learning experience.

John, I certainly sympathise as it does occaisionally erupt, but I'll
repeat what I said in the midst of one of those threads -- its like a
water-cooler break. everyone blows off a little steam and then gets
back to work. These OT threads always end up pretty childish, but they
also blow out in just a couple days.

>
> Without taking sides on the issue of whether OT has gone too far or
> whether we should just expect people to use filters and 'ignore
> thread', I just want to point out that some of the OT'ers are among the
> most knowledgable and prolifically ful of the posters on this list
> (I obviously have no basis for judgement about lurkers), e.g Roberto
> (my bias: he's apparently religious and anti-abortion, so I have a
> natural sympathy with him ), and we should take that into account
> when criticizing them.

I don't think it is prudent to excuse people from anti-social
behaviour just because they are
smarter/more-knowledgeable/otherwise-better than the average
bear. That said, of course, these kinds of flame-wars are exactly the
opposite of anti-social behavior.


> >
> > So give us a break, and instead of political drivel, get back to your
> > usual smart and insightful comments about Debian? Please?

don't they/we always?

A

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John - wrote:
> On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:
>
>> Quite a lot of off-topic opinionated political nonsense.
>
> Look, guys -- you know who you are -- I (and others, most likely)
> don't mind OT topics from time to time, and I/we can pretty easily
> delete without reading, should I/we wish to do so. A certain amount is
> tolerable, and I/we grant some slack because self-expression can be a
> learning experience.
>
> But: a fair number of posts reveal that the authors have quite a
> shallow grasp of politics. Worse, many are written from an adolescent
> ego-centered intent to prevail, even though there's no worthwhile
> content added.
>
> Think of it this way: would you like to have to wade through the views
> of AOL members eager to vindicate their opinions about open source
> software?
>
> So give us a break, and instead of political drivel, get back to your
> usual smart and insightful comments about Debian? Please?
>

I agree with you upon this !!!

I've even considered to put the writers of political issues on my spamlist !

This is the wrong forum to debate this !!

What I dont want in my inbox, is mails that contains political and religious
issues.

Of course I can drop out of this list if I dont want to discuss it, but then
where should I go to get with Debian related stuff ?? Anyone ??

--
/Niels
Registred Linux user #133791
Get counted at http://counter.li.org


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I totally agree..... Stop pushing your views on to us!!!!! Sign up to a
political, or religious mailing list instead....

I do not need to hear these issues....

-----Original Message-----
From: Niels Rasmussen [mailto:nielsrasmus@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 08:53
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: OT

John - wrote:
> On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:
>
>> Quite a lot of off-topic opinionated political nonsense.
>
> Look, guys -- you know who you are -- I (and others, most likely)
> don't mind OT topics from time to time, and I/we can pretty easily
> delete without reading, should I/we wish to do so. A certain amount is
> tolerable, and I/we grant some slack because self-expression can be a
> learning experience.
>
> But: a fair number of posts reveal that the authors have quite a
> shallow grasp of politics. Worse, many are written from an adolescent
> ego-centered intent to prevail, even though there's no worthwhile
> content added.
>
> Think of it this way: would you like to have to wade through the views
> of AOL members eager to vindicate their opinions about open source
> software?
>
> So give us a break, and instead of political drivel, get back to your
> usual smart and insightful comments about Debian? Please?
>

I agree with you upon this !!!

I've even considered to put the writers of political issues on my spamlist !

This is the wrong forum to debate this !!

What I dont want in my inbox, is mails that contains political and religious
issues.

Of course I can drop out of this list if I dont want to discuss it, but then
where should I go to get with Debian related stuff ?? Anyone ??

--
/Niels
Registred Linux user #133791
Get counted at http://counter.li.org


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On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 08:51:30AM +1000, Julian De Marchi wrote:
> I totally agree..... Stop pushing your views on to us!!!!! Sign up to a
> political, or religious mailing list instead....

I'm sorry, but I don't see anyone pushing their views on anyone
else. I see people exchanging ideas and arguing about them, but I dont
see anyone trying to "convert" anyone else. The surest way to
control noise on a list like this is to not generate noise. This
thread is noise -- because it is complaining about noise.

>
> I do not need to hear these issues....

then don't read them. they are clearly marked OT, and if they aren't
initially, someone usually makes the change before too long, so just
skip them its not that hard, *and* its not all that common here. It
happens. Now if this was debian class at university and the teacher
started arguing with the class about something non-debian, sure,
complain, otherwise, just suck it up and move on. I mean that in the
nicest way possible.

A

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niels Rasmussen [mailto:nielsrasmus@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 08:53
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: OT
>
> John - wrote:
> > On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:
> >
> >> Quite a lot of off-topic opinionated political nonsense.
> >
> > Look, guys -- you know who you are -- I (and others, most likely)
> > don't mind OT topics from time to time, and I/we can pretty easily
> > delete without reading, should I/we wish to do so. A certain amount is
> > tolerable, and I/we grant some slack because self-expression can be a
> > learning experience.
> >
> > But: a fair number of posts reveal that the authors have quite a
> > shallow grasp of politics. Worse, many are written from an adolescent
> > ego-centered intent to prevail, even though there's no worthwhile
> > content added.
> >
> > Think of it this way: would you like to have to wade through the views
> > of AOL members eager to vindicate their opinions about open source
> > software?
> >
> > So give us a break, and instead of political drivel, get back to your
> > usual smart and insightful comments about Debian? Please?
> >
>
> I agree with you upon this !!!
>
> I've even considered to put the writers of political issues on my spamlist !
>
> This is the wrong forum to debate this !!
>
> What I dont want in my inbox, is mails that contains political and religious
> issues.
>
> Of course I can drop out of this list if I dont want to discuss it, but then
> where should I go to get with Debian related stuff ?? Anyone ??
>
> --
> /Niels
> Registred Linux user #133791
> Get counted at http://counter.li.org
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>

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On 02/26/07 16:53, Niels Rasmussen wrote:
> John - wrote:
>> On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:
>>
[snip]
> What I dont want in my inbox, is mails that contains political and religious
> issues.

You mean you don't have Icedove filter all d-u email into a d-u folder?

Why not?

You mean you don't Sort By Threaded, and ignore those threads?

Why not?

> Of course I can drop out of this list if I dont want to discuss it, but then
> where should I go to get with Debian related stuff ?? Anyone ??

IRC?



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How about just talk about debian on a debian list.

Is that to hard?

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Sackville-West [mailto:andrew@farwestbilliards.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 09:03
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: OT

On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 08:51:30AM +1000, Julian De Marchi wrote:
> I totally agree..... Stop pushing your views on to us!!!!! Sign up to a
> political, or religious mailing list instead....

I'm sorry, but I don't see anyone pushing their views on anyone
else. I see people exchanging ideas and arguing about them, but I dont
see anyone trying to "convert" anyone else. The surest way to
control noise on a list like this is to not generate noise. This
thread is noise -- because it is complaining about noise.

>
> I do not need to hear these issues....

then don't read them. they are clearly marked OT, and if they aren't
initially, someone usually makes the change before too long, so just
skip them its not that hard, *and* its not all that common here. It
happens. Now if this was debian class at university and the teacher
started arguing with the class about something non-debian, sure,
complain, otherwise, just suck it up and move on. I mean that in the
nicest way possible.

A

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niels Rasmussen [mailto:nielsrasmus@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 08:53
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: OT
>
> John - wrote:
> > On (24 and 25/02/07) mainly the same four or five folks wrote:
> >
> >> Quite a lot of off-topic opinionated political nonsense.
> >
> > Look, guys -- you know who you are -- I (and others, most likely)
> > don't mind OT topics from time to time, and I/we can pretty easily
> > delete without reading, should I/we wish to do so. A certain amount is
> > tolerable, and I/we grant some slack because self-expression can be a
> > learning experience.
> >
> > But: a fair number of posts reveal that the authors have quite a
> > shallow grasp of politics. Worse, many are written from an adolescent
> > ego-centered intent to prevail, even though there's no worthwhile
> > content added.
> >
> > Think of it this way: would you like to have to wade through the views
> > of AOL members eager to vindicate their opinions about open source
> > software?
> >
> > So give us a break, and instead of political drivel, get back to your
> > usual smart and insightful comments about Debian? Please?
> >
>
> I agree with you upon this !!!
>
> I've even considered to put the writers of political issues on my spamlist
!
>
> This is the wrong forum to debate this !!
>
> What I dont want in my inbox, is mails that contains political and
religious
> issues.
>
> Of course I can drop out of this list if I dont want to discuss it, but
then
> where should I go to get with Debian related stuff ?? Anyone ??
>
> --
> /Niels
> Registred Linux user #133791
> Get counted at http://counter.li.org
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>


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