Dear Debian people,

This is a pretty dumb question. But I think it has a little merit. I
bought myself a new Benq DVD rewriter and stuffed in my box. This one can
handle dual layered DVDs as well as the single ones.

I then realised after nosing around in the computer shop that dual layered
DVDs have a capacity of 8.5GB c.f. the single layered ones of 4.4GB.

What a genius this guy is I here you say.

A doubling of storage is what you would expect.

My point is that whereas the Sarge 3.1 r3 release contains 15 CDs, Etch
comprises 21 CDs......

Or 3 DVDs..... But of course these are 3 single layer 4.4 GB DVDs.

Once Etch comes out and everyones starts to work on Lenny, then maybe it
could get to thirty CDs or 4 or 5 DVDs.

Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be considered to
be parked in the repositories?



Regards

Michael Fothergill

__________________________________________________ _______________
Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Monday 04 December 2006 07:51, Michael Fothergill sent this for all our
perusal:
>---> Dear Debian people,
>--->
>---> This is a pretty dumb question. But I think it has a little merit. I
>---> bought myself a new Benq DVD rewriter and stuffed in my box. This one
> can ---> handle dual layered DVDs as well as the single ones.
>--->
>---> I then realised after nosing around in the computer shop that dual
> layered ---> DVDs have a capacity of 8.5GB c.f. the single layered ones of
> 4.4GB. --->
>---> What a genius this guy is I here you say.
>--->
>---> A doubling of storage is what you would expect.
>--->
>---> My point is that whereas the Sarge 3.1 r3 release contains 15 CDs, Etch
>---> comprises 21 CDs......
>--->
>---> Or 3 DVDs..... But of course these are 3 single layer 4.4 GB DVDs.
>--->
>---> Once Etch comes out and everyones starts to work on Lenny, then maybe
> it ---> could get to thirty CDs or 4 or 5 DVDs.
>--->
>---> Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be
> considered to ---> be parked in the repositories?
>--->
>--->
>--->
>---> Regards
>--->
>---> Michael Fothergill

That might be all right, as long as the other option, single layer DVD's and
CD's is still available. Otherwise everyone would have to upgrade to dual
layer DVD's. That's probably a dumb answer. Because Debian would cut out the
other media.

Charlie

--
Registered Linux User:- 329524
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have received no more than one or two letters in my life that were worth the
postage. .............................Henry David Thoreau

.................................................. .............
Debian
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 20:51 +0000, Michael Fothergill wrote:
> Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be consideredto
> be parked in the repositories?

Seems like there have been talk about this, but it haven't happened so
far. See http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2005/07/msg00039.html and
related messages/threads on the debian-cd mailing list.

--
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBFcz1zJ4SEkXYL3SIRAvApAJ96E3SU7brIDU6Lgxkk7U CIkI2MFQCfXuWs
wgDJ9CGyO69NTKj/4Gk72yo=
=GKYJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Sunday 03 December 2006 13:11, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 20:51 +0000, Michael Fothergill wrote:
> > Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be considered
> > to be parked in the repositories?
>
> Seems like there have been talk about this, but it haven't happened so
> far. See http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2005/07/msg00039.html and
> related messages/threads on the debian-cd mailing list.

I made the move to dvd images a while ago and at this point would gladly go
with DL dvd images if they were available. I have the technology.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Hi Mike,

In article <BAY135-F33AE2370EF62B8EFF8193591D80@phx.gbl> you write:
>Dear Debian people,
>
>This is a pretty dumb question. But I think it has a little merit. I
>bought myself a new Benq DVD rewriter and stuffed in my box. This one can
>handle dual layered DVDs as well as the single ones.
>
>I then realised after nosing around in the computer shop that dual layered
>DVDs have a capacity of 8.5GB c.f. the single layered ones of 4.4GB.

8.5 billion bytes vs. 4.7 billion bytes.

>What a genius this guy is I here you say.
>
>A doubling of storage is what you would expect.
>
>My point is that whereas the Sarge 3.1 r3 release contains 15 CDs, Etch
>comprises 21 CDs......
>
>Or 3 DVDs..... But of course these are 3 single layer 4.4 GB DVDs.
>
>Once Etch comes out and everyones starts to work on Lenny, then maybe it
>could get to thirty CDs or 4 or 5 DVDs.
>
>Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be considered to
>be parked in the repositories?

*maybe*. We had some of this discussion before sarge released, when
there was a chance that we might make sarge fit on a single DL
DVD. See the debian-cd mailing list archives if you'd like to know
more... :-)

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com
Can't keep my eyes from the circling sky,
Tongue-tied & twisted, Just an earth-bound misfit, I...


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:08:18 +0000
Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> In article <BAY135-F33AE2370EF62B8EFF8193591D80@phx.gbl> you write:
> >Dear Debian people,
> >
> >This is a pretty dumb question. But I think it has a little merit.
> >I bought myself a new Benq DVD rewriter and stuffed in my box. This
> >one can handle dual layered DVDs as well as the single ones.
> >
> >I then realised after nosing around in the computer shop that dual
> >layered DVDs have a capacity of 8.5GB c.f. the single layered ones
> >of 4.4GB.
>
> 8.5 billion bytes vs. 4.7 billion bytes.
>
> >What a genius this guy is I here you say.
> >
> >A doubling of storage is what you would expect.
> >
> >My point is that whereas the Sarge 3.1 r3 release contains 15 CDs,
> >Etch comprises 21 CDs......
> >
> >Or 3 DVDs..... But of course these are 3 single layer 4.4 GB DVDs.
> >
> >Once Etch comes out and everyones starts to work on Lenny, then
> >maybe it could get to thirty CDs or 4 or 5 DVDs.
> >
> >Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be
> >considered to be parked in the repositories?
>
> *maybe*. We had some of this discussion before sarge released, when
> there was a chance that we might make sarge fit on a single DL
> DVD. See the debian-cd mailing list archives if you'd like to know
> more... :-)
>

Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
$1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
changed.

--
Greg Madden


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 17:04 -0900, Greg Madden wrote:

> Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
> layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
> $1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
> changed.

DL disks are still rather pricey compared to SL. As my example, a few
months ago, I was able to get a spindle of 15 DL DVDs at Best Buy for
$30, making it $2 per disk. And about a week and a half ago, my local
Big Lots had spindles of 50 SL DVDs for $12...normally $15, but they are
going out of business, so everything there has a 20% discount (24 cents
per disk) I don't know if the price of DL media has dropped even
further lately, but it is still more sensible to stick with SL for most
uses.

Hmmm... Time to head back to Big Lots and stock up on more blanks I
think.




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Sunday 03 December 2006 18:04, Greg Madden wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:08:18 +0000
>
> Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > In article <BAY135-F33AE2370EF62B8EFF8193591D80@phx.gbl> you write:
> > >Dear Debian people,
> > >
> > >This is a pretty dumb question. But I think it has a little merit.
> > >I bought myself a new Benq DVD rewriter and stuffed in my box. This
> > >one can handle dual layered DVDs as well as the single ones.
> > >
> > >I then realised after nosing around in the computer shop that dual
> > >layered DVDs have a capacity of 8.5GB c.f. the single layered ones
> > >of 4.4GB.
> >
> > 8.5 billion bytes vs. 4.7 billion bytes.
> >
> > >What a genius this guy is I here you say.
> > >
> > >A doubling of storage is what you would expect.
> > >
> > >My point is that whereas the Sarge 3.1 r3 release contains 15 CDs,
> > >Etch comprises 21 CDs......
> > >
> > >Or 3 DVDs..... But of course these are 3 single layer 4.4 GB DVDs.
> > >
> > >Once Etch comes out and everyones starts to work on Lenny, then
> > >maybe it could get to thirty CDs or 4 or 5 DVDs.
> > >
> > >Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be
> > >considered to be parked in the repositories?
> >
> > *maybe*. We had some of this discussion before sarge released, when
> > there was a chance that we might make sarge fit on a single DL
> > DVD. See the debian-cd mailing list archives if you'd like to know
> > more... :-)
>
> Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
> layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
> $1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
> changed.

I have a few of them here. I don't use them often but in the case of debian I
would invest a few extra $ to keep the number of disks down. Wasn't so bad
when I was just using i386, now I also use amd64 (soon I will only use amd64)
the number of disks is impressive..


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

In article <20061203170446.67f2b3c2@myetch> you write:
>On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:08:18 +0000
>Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> *maybe*. We had some of this discussion before sarge released, when
>> there was a chance that we might make sarge fit on a single DL
>> DVD. See the debian-cd mailing list archives if you'd like to know
>> more... :-)
>>
>
>Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
>layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
>$1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
>changed.

Yup, good point. We've just moved the regular builds to a new host
that should give us much reduced CD/DVD build times, and therefore
make it easier to add DL-DVDs as a build option. However, we'll
struggle to have the space to make full ISOs available for yet another
(admittedly minority) format so if we do start building them there
will probably only be jigdo files available.

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com
Can't keep my eyes from the circling sky,
Tongue-tied & twisted, Just an earth-bound misfit, I...


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Monday 04 December 2006 10:06, Scarletdown wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 17:04 -0900, Greg Madden wrote:
> > Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
> > layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
> > $1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
> > changed.
>
> DL disks are still rather pricey compared to SL. As my example, a few
> months ago, I was able to get a spindle of 15 DL DVDs at Best Buy for
> $30, making it $2 per disk. And about a week and a half ago, my local
> Big Lots had spindles of 50 SL DVDs for $12...normally $15, but they are
> going out of business, so everything there has a 20% discount (24 cents
> per disk) I don't know if the price of DL media has dropped even
> further lately, but it is still more sensible to stick with SL for most
> uses.

I have blanks here ready to go, I paid $20 for three of them a year or two
ago, I won't do that again! I just had a look online for blanks and I can get
them on sale for $70 (50 2.4x dl). I don't think I'll go for that since I
just don't need so many. Have to shop around for better prices on dl media
for sure.

Maybe a .jigdo for those who want the dl disks would work?

> Hmmm... Time to head back to Big Lots and stock up on more blanks I
> think.

Me too, I don't think I have any sl blanks left.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Alan Ianson wrote:
> On Sunday 03 December 2006 13:11, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
>> On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 20:51 +0000, Michael Fothergill wrote:
>>> Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be considered
>>> to be parked in the repositories?
>> Seems like there have been talk about this, but it haven't happened so
>> far. See http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2005/07/msg00039.html and
>> related messages/threads on the debian-cd mailing list.
>
> I made the move to dvd images a while ago and at this point would gladly go
> with DL dvd images if they were available. I have the technology.
>
>

So do I. But certainly not (ever?) the bandwidth.

Hugo


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Monday 04 December 2006 10:54, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Alan Ianson wrote:
> > On Sunday 03 December 2006 13:11, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 20:51 +0000, Michael Fothergill wrote:
> >>> Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be
> >>> considered to be parked in the repositories?
> >>
> >> Seems like there have been talk about this, but it haven't happened so
> >> far. See http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2005/07/msg00039.html and
> >> related messages/threads on the debian-cd mailing list.
> >
> > I made the move to dvd images a while ago and at this point would gladly
> > go with DL dvd images if they were available. I have the technology.
>
> So do I. But certainly not (ever?) the bandwidth.

In the early days of the internet when dial-up lines were clogged with users
and busy signals bandwidth was an issue. I haven't had a problem with
bandwidth for a long time now and as far as I know it's not an issue anymore.
I guess it is still an issue for anyone using dial-up and in a case like that
a net install is likely in order.

When I first started using linux I was still using dial-up myself. In those
days I downloaded the first two cd's and most of what I needed was on those
disks, only a small number of packages was downloaded from my sources.list,
much patience was needed..

My current isp provides amazing speed and bandwidth, I don't miss those
dial-up days at all..


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 10:43:20AM -0800, Alan Ianson wrote:
> On Monday 04 December 2006 10:06, Scarletdown wrote:
> > On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 17:04 -0900, Greg Madden wrote:
> > > Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
> > > layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
> > > $1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
> > > changed.
> >

With the cost of hard drives dropping so much, I'm wondering why one
would need to have __everything__ on optical media. Why not just have
the CD1 (so you have all the docs) and then a local mirror repository on
a (removable?) hard drive along with other backups? Or, for that
matter, put the repository on whatever backup media you use (e.g. tape,
a hard drive on another box, etc).

Doug.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Monday 04 December 2006 11:23, Douglas Tutty wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 10:43:20AM -0800, Alan Ianson wrote:
> > On Monday 04 December 2006 10:06, Scarletdown wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 17:04 -0900, Greg Madden wrote:
> > > > Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
> > > > layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
> > > > $1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
> > > > changed.
>
> With the cost of hard drives dropping so much, I'm wondering why one
> would need to have __everything__ on optical media. Why not just have
> the CD1 (so you have all the docs) and then a local mirror repository on
> a (removable?) hard drive along with other backups? Or, for that
> matter, put the repository on whatever backup media you use (e.g. tape,
> a hard drive on another box, etc).

Nothing wrong with that, but you can't put it in your pocket and take it with
you.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Michael Fothergill wrote:
> Dear Debian people,
>
> This is a pretty dumb question. But I think it has a little merit. I
> bought myself a new Benq DVD rewriter and stuffed in my box. This one can
> handle dual layered DVDs as well as the single ones.
>
> I then realised after nosing around in the computer shop that dual layered
> DVDs have a capacity of 8.5GB c.f. the single layered ones of 4.4GB.
>
> What a genius this guy is I here you say.
>
> A doubling of storage is what you would expect.
>
> My point is that whereas the Sarge 3.1 r3 release contains 15 CDs, Etch
> comprises 21 CDs......
>
> Or 3 DVDs..... But of course these are 3 single layer 4.4 GB DVDs.
>
> Once Etch comes out and everyones starts to work on Lenny, then maybe it
> could get to thirty CDs or 4 or 5 DVDs.
>
> Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be considered to
> be parked in the repositories?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Michael Fothergill
>

I've given up making distrubution disks anyway. Now I just get a USB
external
disk drive and install a debian mirror on it. No need to burn a new
media as
the updates are released. (Just the network install disk to get a
usable
OS on the computer)

Stuart


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 11:35:03AM -0800, Alan Ianson wrote:
> On Monday 04 December 2006 11:23, Douglas Tutty wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 10:43:20AM -0800, Alan Ianson wrote:
> > > On Monday 04 December 2006 10:06, Scarletdown wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 17:04 -0900, Greg Madden wrote:
> > > > > Part of this discussion concerned the cost of DL media vs single
> > > > > layer.At the time DL was about $8/disk while compared to maybe
> > > > > $1.00/disk for SL, not a good value, imho. The economics may have
> > > > > changed.
> >
> > With the cost of hard drives dropping so much, I'm wondering why one
> > would need to have __everything__ on optical media. Why not just have
> > the CD1 (so you have all the docs) and then a local mirror repository on
> > a (removable?) hard drive along with other backups? Or, for that
> > matter, put the repository on whatever backup media you use (e.g. tape,
> > a hard drive on another box, etc).
>
> Nothing wrong with that, but you can't put it in your pocket and take it with
> you.
>

A 2.5" drive in an Addonics Jupiter enclosure would fit in my pocket
(but please don't put it in you __back__ pocket and sit down):-)

Doug.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 08:04:11AM +1100, M-L wrote:
> On Monday 04 December 2006 07:51, Michael Fothergill sent this for all our
> perusal:
> >--->
> >---> Once it gets to that size would dual layered DVD iso images be
> > considered to ---> be parked in the repositories?
> >--->
> >--->
> >--->
> >---> Regards
> >--->
> >---> Michael Fothergill
>
> That might be all right, as long as the other option, single layer DVD's and
> CD's is still available. Otherwise everyone would have to upgrade to dual
> layer DVD's. That's probably a dumb answer. Because Debian would cut out the
> other media.

Last I heard (which was a year or so ago) DVDs were not a reliable way
to store data long-term -- or, at least, many brands/makes of DVDs were
not and some might be, but it's not clear which was which.

Has this situation changed? If not, it essential to keep the older
storage formats.

-- hendrik


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org