Doug writes:
> The difficulty is, having seen the code, how do I accomplish the same
> thing without using hints inherent in your code. Its like trying to
> write a literature-research paper; having read a hundred articles, I have
> to ensure that everything I say in my paper is either my own idea or is
> properly referenced.

Copyright law does not require that.

> Therefore, I don't even want to read code that I'm not free to take ideas
> from.

You _are_ free to take ideas from copyrighted code. Copyright protects
expression, not ideas.
--
John Hasler


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 08:45:51PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> Doug writes:
> > The difficulty is, having seen the code, how do I accomplish the same
> > thing without using hints inherent in your code. Its like trying to
> > write a literature-research paper; having read a hundred articles, I have
> > to ensure that everything I say in my paper is either my own idea or is
> > properly referenced.
>
> Copyright law does not require that.
>
> > Therefore, I don't even want to read code that I'm not free to take ideas
> > from.
>
> You _are_ free to take ideas from copyrighted code. Copyright protects
> expression, not ideas.
>

Legal or not, you can still get into hot water. Just look at the
Davinchi Code court case where the authors of a scholary paper tried to
sue the authors of the book based on the use if _ideas_ in their paper.

It got thrown out and the publicity ed the book, but it was still
hot water.

Doug.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

2006/11/30, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <tshepang@gmail.com>:
>
> Hi,
> A killer app is an application that compels one to use a certain
> system.
>

Hi,
I think this assertion is a little bit misleading.

Instead, as you wrote, you "moved to GNU/Linux for its said overall
magnificence, instead of a particular application [...] "

So, what's the need in looking for a killer app when the whole system is?

Linux tips the scales, not a single app.
That's my belief.

cheers

On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 05:19:54PM -0500, hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
>
> Code without licence tends not to propagate. Linux wasn't the first
> Unix-compatible one to have been written. It seems to me there was a
> Unix-compatible kerlen written in the language TURING sometime in the
> late 70's or early 80's. But it didn't have a free license, and --
> well, have any of you ever heard of it?

I remember its name -- that Unix-compatible kernel was called TUNIS.

-- hendrik


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 02:01:07AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 07:52:23AM +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
> <snip>
> > Also, my brother loves Debian (except that he wouldn't if I
> > wasn't around), but has to dual-boot since he needs a Cubase or Reason
> > (music production) which don't really have FLOSS equivalents...
> >
> Hi T,
> just recalled a post[0] by this guy pete from ubuntu about FLOSS audio
> stuff. follow his blog (or like me at planet.ubuntu.com) for more a/v
> stuff.

Also the linux-audio-user list:
List-Archive: <http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user>
List-Subscribe:
<http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user>,
<mailto:linux-audio-user-request@music.columbia.edu?subject=subscribe>

--
Chris.
======
" ... the official version cannot be abandoned because the implication of
rejecting it is far too disturbing: that we are subject to a government
conspiracy of `X-Files' proportions and insidiousness."
Letter to the LA Times Magazine, September 18, 2005.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

John Hasler wrote:

> If you explicitly release it into the public domain you have licensed it.
> If you "release" it with no license at all it will never become popular
> because no one will distribute it.

Maybe not, maybe so. If they did, how would I know or stop them?
Certainly just because you say they wouldn't, doesn't make it true.

The reality is, the only reason anyone would be worried about
redistribution is largely because of both the real issues *and* the FUD
created by the endless GPL debates, right?

Look at the (much) bigger picture here. If licenses weren't ever made a
big deal (by "evil" corporations and GPL fans alike), they wouldn't be.

Again, I'm a GPL fan to some extent. I am *not* arguing against it.
I'm simply stating that licenses are only as important as people think
they are, and if someone's code is posted without one, and you can
reasonably be assured that they simply don't care about that code, you
could read it, use it, modify it, or do whatever you want with it --
with virtually zero chance anything "bad" will ever happen to you.

Whether or not you *wish* to do that, is completely a personal decision.
I respect yours, and I agree that *I* would never do it, but we
open-source zealots often don't realize that our own attitudes create
much of the FUD surrounding software distribution worries.

RMS (and the GPL group) use FUD just as much to their advantage as do
the commercial interests. Would Stallman or any of the regularly
interviewed "open source early visionaries" even have positions of
prestige/respect if they hadn't ed spread FUD about licensing?

You're ing that along by saying "no one" will distribute unlicensed
code. ALL code was once unlicensed... and TRULY Free. I realize that
is never going to be true again, but we should remind ourselves from
time to time that licensing and the so-called "need" for it came about
as a result of the "battle" between open and closed source projects
itself. The code itself was always (and is) still Free if posted in a
public setting.

Copyright (like all other laws), automatic or otherwise, is only
important if enforced. Plenty of unenforced, badly written laws on the
books. So really -- the chance of Copyright enforcement then must be
weighted, just like any other business or personal decision.

Roll through any stop signs without coming to a full and complete stop
in your car lately? You broke the law. Anyone see it (or care)?

Just like everything in life, the stakes may be high or low. If you did
it in an empty intersection at 2AM... that's a different level of risk
than doing it in plain view of a peace officer in rush-hour traffic.

I'm not recommending anyone break the law, or have no personal
integrity. I'm only saying that it happens every day without a shadow
of a doubt. Code copying included.

Nate


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 12/10/06 12:41, Nate Duehr wrote:
> John Hasler wrote:
[snip]
> Roll through any stop signs without coming to a full and complete stop
> in your car lately? You broke the law. Anyone see it (or care)?
>
> Just like everything in life, the stakes may be high or low. If you did
> it in an empty intersection at 2AM... that's a different level of risk
> than doing it in plain view of a peace officer in rush-hour traffic.
>
> I'm not recommending anyone break the law, or have no personal
> integrity. I'm only saying that it happens every day without a shadow
> of a doubt. Code copying included.

No wonder civilized society is crashing down around our necks.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Is "common sense" really valid?
For example, it is "common sense" to white-power racists that
whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins
are mud people.
However, that "common sense" is obviously wrong.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFfFk0S9HxQb37XmcRAijuAJ9QBKYuvTrcqSUaBePRlA wnbsoB4QCfeFWG
pqQp/Tixhi8bdls2R/NMSUc=
=URUr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 01:00:04PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/10/06 12:41, Nate Duehr wrote:
> > Roll through any stop signs without coming to a full and complete stop
> > in your car lately? You broke the law. Anyone see it (or care)?
> >
> > Just like everything in life, the stakes may be high or low. If you did
> > it in an empty intersection at 2AM... that's a different level of risk
> > than doing it in plain view of a peace officer in rush-hour traffic.

> No wonder civilized society is crashing down around our necks.

Civilization is doomed because people are intelligently adapting to the
situation around them rather than relying on blind obedience to
authority? I suspect your definition of "civilization" may be somewhat
different than mine if that's what you mean.

(For the record, though, I'm a stickler about stop signs. And full
stops before making a right turn on red, to the frequent annoyance of
people behind me. Speed limits, on the other hand...)

--
I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty
than those attending too small degree of it.
- Thomas Jefferson


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Am 2006-11-30 13:14:34, schrieb Tshepang Lekhonkhobe:
> Hi,
> A killer app is an application that compels one to use a certain
> system. On Debian lists, someone mentioned that meld, a GUI diff
> utility, was killer. I can't think of any I have because I moved to
> GNU/Linux for its said overall magnificence, instead of a particular
> application, and today there's isn't one utility I admire so much I'd
> consider such... maybe gnome-terminal, lsof, grep, top,
> epiphany-browser, or less. I'd mention admirance for Blender, GCC,
> Python but they are cross-platform. I'd mention GNOME, but it's a 100
> apps. So I give up and ask you, what's your killer app(s)?

FVWM - The REAL KILLER APP!

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi
0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFfq90C0FPBMSS+BIRAqkNAKCSy3C7EClfExdTIV5R8C bo2CbALQCeInFp
ZOvDPpQCrKgVfmf1DD+UIBc=
=mcXi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle@freenet.de> said:
> FVWM - The REAL KILLER APP!

killall - the /real/ app killer!

(sorry, sorry, i couldn't resist.)

Cybe R. Wizard
--
When Windows are opened the bugs come in.
Winduhs


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org