Opinions sought:
============
A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I have not
done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest the time to set
it up and learn it? If it is, where would you recommend as a starting
place. I looked quickly on the web, but not found anything directly to the
point, and as I am busy right now I thought I would solicit opinions from
fellow professionals.

Shelly

Shelly wrote:
>
> Opinions sought:
> ============
> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I have not
> done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest the time to set
> it up and learn it? If it is, where would you recommend as a starting
> place. I looked quickly on the web, but not found anything directly to the
> point, and as I am busy right now I thought I would solicit opinions from
> fellow professionals.
>
> Shelly

The most obvious starting points would be:

http://www.joomla.org for general information on Joomla
http://dev.joomla.org for developer information on Joomla
http://api.joomla.org for a reference on the Joomla API

On Nov 8, 9:17 am, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>
> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP.
> I have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to
> invest the time to set it up and learn it?

Setup will take you all of ten minutes. Be aware though that Joomla!
exists in two flavors. The current release is 1.0, but it is being
replaced with 1.5, which is a complete rewrite. Almost everything,
from administration to developing extensions, is different in 1.5
compared to 1.0. So you might want to discuss this with your
prospective client.

As to learning, it is entirely up to you. If you are a fast learner
and expect to handle similar requests in the future, you should
consider it. If not, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense, unless
you enjoy learning for the sake of learning.

> If it is, where would you recommend as a starting place.

joomla.org

Cheers,
NC

On Nov 8, 7:55 pm, NC <n...@iname.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 9:17 am, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP.
> > I have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to
> > invest the time to set it up and learn it?
>
> Setup will take you all of ten minutes. Be aware though that Joomla!
> exists in two flavors. The current release is 1.0, but it is being
> replaced with 1.5, which is a complete rewrite. Almost everything,
> from administration to developing extensions, is different in 1.5
> compared to 1.0. So you might want to discuss this with your
> prospective client.
>
> As to learning, it is entirely up to you. If you are a fast learner
> and expect to handle similar requests in the future, you should
> consider it. If not, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense, unless
> you enjoy learning for the sake of learning.
>
> > If it is, where would you recommend as a starting place.
>
> joomla.org
>
> Cheers,
> NC

I understood that Shelly wanted to customize Joomla, not just use it?
Sorry if
I'm wrong.

Darko

Darko wrote:
> On Nov 8, 7:55 pm, NC <n...@iname.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 8, 9:17 am, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP.
>>> I have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to
>>> invest the time to set it up and learn it?
>>
>> Setup will take you all of ten minutes. Be aware though that Joomla!
>> exists in two flavors. The current release is 1.0, but it is being
>> replaced with 1.5, which is a complete rewrite. Almost everything,
>> from administration to developing extensions, is different in 1.5
>> compared to 1.0. So you might want to discuss this with your
>> prospective client.
>>
>> As to learning, it is entirely up to you. If you are a fast learner
>> and expect to handle similar requests in the future, you should
>> consider it. If not, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense, unless
>> you enjoy learning for the sake of learning.
>>
>>> If it is, where would you recommend as a starting place.
>>
>> joomla.org
>>
>> Cheers,
>> NC
>
> I understood that Shelly wanted to customize Joomla, not just use it?
> Sorry if
> I'm wrong.
>
> Darko

Correct, but actually I wouldn't be able to customize it unless I learned it
first. Is this something that goes on the server, or is it like Dreamweaver
that goes on the developer's machine? That is a big question that I didn't
readily find online.

Shelly

On Nov 8, 8:09 pm, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
> Darko wrote:
> > On Nov 8, 7:55 pm, NC <n...@iname.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 8, 9:17 am, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>
> >>> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP.
> >>> I have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to
> >>> invest the time to set it up and learn it?
>
> >> Setup will take you all of ten minutes. Be aware though that Joomla!
> >> exists in two flavors. The current release is 1.0, but it is being
> >> replaced with 1.5, which is a complete rewrite. Almost everything,
> >> from administration to developing extensions, is different in 1.5
> >> compared to 1.0. So you might want to discuss this with your
> >> prospective client.
>
> >> As to learning, it is entirely up to you. If you are a fast learner
> >> and expect to handle similar requests in the future, you should
> >> consider it. If not, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense, unless
> >> you enjoy learning for the sake of learning.
>
> >>> If it is, where would you recommend as a starting place.
>
> >> joomla.org
>
> >> Cheers,
> >> NC
>
> > I understood that Shelly wanted to customize Joomla, not just use it?
> > Sorry if
> > I'm wrong.
>
> > Darko
>
> Correct, but actually I wouldn't be able to customize it unless I learned it
> first. Is this something that goes on the server, or is it like Dreamweaver
> that goes on the developer's machine? That is a big question that I didn't
> readily find online.
>
> Shelly

server, as much as I know. You install it, set parameters, fill the
database, and it works.
I never used it, so don't rely on me, it's just a clue. I bet there
are people here who know it
better than I do.

Shelly wrote:
> Darko wrote:
>> On Nov 8, 7:55 pm, NC <n...@iname.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 8, 9:17 am, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP.
>>>> I have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to
>>>> invest the time to set it up and learn it?
>>> Setup will take you all of ten minutes. Be aware though that Joomla!
>>> exists in two flavors. The current release is 1.0, but it is being
>>> replaced with 1.5, which is a complete rewrite. Almost everything,
>>> from administration to developing extensions, is different in 1.5
>>> compared to 1.0. So you might want to discuss this with your
>>> prospective client.
>>>
>>> As to learning, it is entirely up to you. If you are a fast learner
>>> and expect to handle similar requests in the future, you should
>>> consider it. If not, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense, unless
>>> you enjoy learning for the sake of learning.
>>>
>>>> If it is, where would you recommend as a starting place.
>>> joomla.org
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> NC
>> I understood that Shelly wanted to customize Joomla, not just use it?
>> Sorry if
>> I'm wrong.
>>
>> Darko
>
> Correct, but actually I wouldn't be able to customize it unless I learned it
> first. Is this something that goes on the server, or is it like Dreamweaver
> that goes on the developer's machine? That is a big question that I didn't
> readily find online.
>
> Shelly
>
>
>

It's goes on the server.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Nov 8, 12:17 pm, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
> Opinions sought:
> ============
> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I have not
> done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest the time to set
> it up and learn it? If it is, where would you recommend as a starting
> place. I looked quickly on the web, but not found anything directly to the
> point, and as I am busy right now I thought I would solicit opinions from
> fellow professionals.

Why is the client insisting on Joomla? Do they already have a Joomla-
based site? If not, have they considered the full range of options?

"Shelly" <sheldonlg.news@asap-consult.com> wrote in message
news:13j6hdcfi1i4o7b@corp.supernews.com...

> Opinions sought:
> ============
> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I have not
> done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest the time to set
> it up and learn it? If it is, where would you recommend as a starting
> place. I looked quickly on the web, but not found anything directly to
> the point, and as I am busy right now I thought I would solicit opinions
> from fellow professionals.

Shelly -
Hell yes it's a good idea - especially coming from your apparent skill-set.
I would not recommend anyone use Joomla - but that's just because I don't
like to use other people's tookits - when mine is *great* for me.

But if you're a Lone Programmer, it's a GREAT way to expose yourself to
other smart people's work.

And that's just the intellecutal in me saying that.
On the more practical side - if you wanna bring in some dough, accumulating
a body of experience with niche software like this is a REAL money-maker.

Consider the folks here - mostly very expert. But how many are
Joomla-capable, or have even used the damn thing? Not many.

Learning Joomla - you open the door to beating out far more experienced, far
more knowledgable people than yourself.

"Shelly" <sheldonlg.news@asap-consult.com> wrote in message
news:13j6o0l588lfmf4@corp.supernews.com...


> Correct, but actually I wouldn't be able to customize it unless I learned
> it first. Is this something that goes on the server, or is it like
> Dreamweaver that goes on the developer's machine? That is a big question
> that I didn't readily find online.

It's just a bunch of PHP files.
No .exe's; no .dll's; just a bunch of PHP.

lawrence k wrote:
> On Nov 8, 12:17 pm, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>> Opinions sought:
>> ============
>> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I
>> have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest
>> the time to set it up and learn it? If it is, where would you
>> recommend as a starting place. I looked quickly on the web, but not
>> found anything directly to the point, and as I am busy right now I
>> thought I would solicit opinions from fellow professionals.
>
> Why is the client insisting on Joomla? Do they already have a Joomla-
> based site? If not, have they considered the full range of options?

When a client says "I want A", you don't try to sell him B. You sell him A.

Shelly

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 16:52:56 -0500, "Shelly"
<sheldonlg.news@asap-consult.com> wrote:

>lawrence k wrote:
>> On Nov 8, 12:17 pm, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>>> Opinions sought:
>>> ============
>>> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I
>>> have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest
>>> the time to set it up and learn it? If it is, where would you
>>> recommend as a starting place. I looked quickly on the web, but not
>>> found anything directly to the point, and as I am busy right now I
>>> thought I would solicit opinions from fellow professionals.
>>
>> Why is the client insisting on Joomla? Do they already have a Joomla-
>> based site? If not, have they considered the full range of options?
>
>When a client says "I want A", you don't try to sell him B. You sell him A.

No, you sell the client A and B and throw in C as well.


--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd.
http://www.sandrila.co.uk/ http://www.pherber.com/

> Is this something that goes on the server, or is it like
> Dreamweaver
> that goes on the developer's machine? That is a big question that I
> didn't readily find online.

So you had problems finding and/or understandig the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joomla

I guess the answer is "no, it's not worth investing time". Because in case
THIS caused any trouble, I would be very surprised when learning Joomla
didn't.

"Paul Herber" <SubstituteMyFirstNameHere@pherber.com> wrote in message
news:l427j319irpbchljrfmb524akqdq5bietg@news.gradw ell.net...
> On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 16:52:56 -0500, "Shelly"

>>> Why is the client insisting on Joomla? Do they already have a Joomla-
>>> based site? If not, have they considered the full range of options?
>>
>>When a client says "I want A", you don't try to sell him B. You sell him
>>A.
>
> No, you sell the client A and B and throw in C as well.

You should run for Congress.

Jonas Werres wrote:
>> Is this something that goes on the server, or is it like
>> Dreamweaver
>> that goes on the developer's machine? That is a big question that I
>> didn't readily find online.
>
> So you had problems finding and/or understandig the Wikipedia article:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joomla
>
> I guess the answer is "no, it's not worth investing time". Because in
> case THIS caused any trouble, I would be very surprised when learning
> Joomla didn't.

There is always one in every bunch, isn't there. No, I didn't see the
wikipedia. I searched and found the Joomla site and some others. Did you
not notice my original post where I said I was very busy and did a quick
search? Did you also not see where I was seeking advice from other experts?
I guess not on all counts. I guess some people just get their jollies by
being snide. Oh, well.

--
Shelly

On Nov 8, 4:52 pm, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
> lawrence k wrote:
> > On Nov 8, 12:17 pm, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
> >> Opinions sought:
> >> ============
> >> A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I
> >> have not done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest
> >> the time to set it up and learn it? If it is, where would you
> >> recommend as a starting place. I looked quickly on the web, but not
> >> found anything directly to the point, and as I am busy right now I
> >> thought I would solicit opinions from fellow professionals.
>
> > Why is the client insisting on Joomla? Do they already have a Joomla-
> > based site? If not, have they considered the full range of options?
>
> When a client says "I want A", you don't try to sell him B. You sell him A.

But why is the client asking for A? Because a friend recommended it to
them once? Or because they've already invested $40,000 setting up
their company intranet with Joomla, and now they just need some modest
customization? In the first case, there is room to discuss a wide
range of options, in the second case, it's clear that the client has
an investment they don't want to walk away from.

On Nov 8, 11:09 am, "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't be able to customize it unless I learned it first.
> Is this something that goes on the server, or is it like Dreamweaver
> that goes on the developer's machine?

All customizations (themes, extensions, etc.) reside on the server.

Cheers,
NC

On 8 Nov, 20:41, "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
> "Shelly" <sheldonlg.n...@asap-consult.com> wrote in message
>
> news:13j6hdcfi1i4o7b@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > Opinions sought:
> > ============
> > A prospective client wants customizations to Joomla using PHP. I have not
> > done anything with Joomla. Is it worth my while to invest the time to set
> > it up and learn it? If it is, where would you recommend as a starting
> > place. I looked quickly on the web, but not found anything directly to
> > the point, and as I am busy right now I thought I would solicit opinions
> > from fellow professionals.
>
> Shelly -
> Hell yes it's a good idea - especially coming from your apparent skill-set.
> I would not recommend anyone use Joomla - but that's just because I don't
> like to use other people's tookits - when mine is *great* for me.
>
> But if you're a Lone Programmer, it's a GREAT way to expose yourself to
> other smart people's work.
>
> And that's just the intellecutal in me saying that.
> On the more practical side - if you wanna bring in some dough, accumulating
> a body of experience with niche software like this is a REAL money-maker.
>
> Consider the folks here - mostly very expert. But how many are
> Joomla-capable, or have even used the damn thing? Not many.
>
> Learning Joomla - you open the door to beating out far more experienced, far
> more knowledgable people than yourself.

Hey, most of my income is from building custom components for Mambo/
Joomla. The last thing I want is competition ;-)

But seriously. I am so busy, I'd love to find other Joomla literate
folks that I could trust to sub-contract to!

"Captain Paralytic" <paul_lautman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1194605004.209726.142200@50g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> On 8 Nov, 20:41, "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:

>> Learning Joomla - you open the door to beating out far more experienced,
>> far
>> more knowledgable people than yourself.
>
> Hey, most of my income is from building custom components for Mambo/
> Joomla. The last thing I want is competition ;-)
>
> But seriously. I am so busy, I'd love to find other Joomla literate
> folks that I could trust to sub-contract to!

Hmmmm - maybe I should take my own advice, eh?
You trust me?

Most of my work is with political folks, but since the election was last
week, I'm bored and hungry - and wasting a lot of time in newsgroups.

On 9 Nov, 17:11, "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
> Hmmmm - maybe I should take my own advice, eh?
> You trust me?
Now there is the big question! I hate subcontracting out. The stress
is terrible.

I'm in the UK and recently I had a client in Australia and I subbed
some of the work out to one of my guys in the States. Matching all the
different timezones for status updates was a nightmare, especially
when I couldn't get in touch with the guy in the States.

At least if I know I'm gonna miss a deadline I know exactly what's
going on. BTW, the job mentioned above went OK and the client was very
happy, but the stress....

"Captain Paralytic" <paul_lautman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1194633683.213601.170350@v3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> On 9 Nov, 17:11, "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>> Hmmmm - maybe I should take my own advice, eh?
>> You trust me?
> Now there is the big question! I hate subcontracting out. The stress
> is terrible.
>
> I'm in the UK and recently I had a client in Australia and I subbed
> some of the work out to one of my guys in the States. Matching all the
> different timezones for status updates was a nightmare, especially
> when I couldn't get in touch with the guy in the States.
>
> At least if I know I'm gonna miss a deadline I know exactly what's
> going on. BTW, the job mentioned above went OK and the client was very
> happy, but the stress....

How bouts this? I'll trust you.
You can pay me ex-post facto - fixed rate, instead of hourly - after you get
the code you need.
Put together a spec, put a dollar (or pound - I do both) value on it and a
deadline and send it to me at bucky@kaufman.net .

I'll let you know right away if I will accept it and make the
work-in-progress available to you.
That way - you'll know if it strays off schedule or off-spec - BEFORE it's
too late.

If we go through the whole process, only to find that what I thought was
good code, you thought was bad - no problem.
I understand that sometimes there's just a disconnect - especially with
strangers - so I'll just chalk it up to that and be done with it.
(I'll allow my self to get screwed by anyone... once.)

I pay my IPP (APlus.net) high-dollar, and in return I get some damned good
24x7 tech support.
Furthermore, they feature Joomla as one of the packages they specifically
support.
Between that and all the Joomla chatter here - the universe wants me to do
this.

Captain Paralytic wrote:

>
> Hey, most of my income is from building custom components for Mambo/
> Joomla. The last thing I want is competition ;-)
>
> But seriously. I am so busy, I'd love to find other Joomla literate
> folks that I could trust to sub-contract to!
>

It just so happens I'm about to undertake a Joomla project for one of my
clients. I'm in the US, and I also would be interested in discussing
some joint work with you. My PHP background is only a tad limited - I
haven't done much with regex - but I've already seen some of the places
in Joomla where customization is done.

What I'd really like to see is one of the templates that is available
for Joomla. That will tell me a lot more about the inner workings, I'm
sure.

How soon do you think you would be looking for sub ? I'm sure it
will take me a good few months to get a firm handle on this package, and
I might rather wait for the upcoming version before diving in.

Tom

"tomb" <tomb@technetcenter.com> wrote in message
news:LB3Zi.736$yu3.652@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Captain Paralytic wrote:

>> But seriously. I am so busy, I'd love to find other Joomla literate
>> folks that I could trust to sub-contract to!
>
> It just so happens I'm about to undertake a Joomla project for one of my
> clients. I'm in the US, and I also would be interested in discussing some
> joint work with you. My PHP background is only a tad limited - I haven't
> done much with regex - but I've already seen some of the places in Joomla
> where customization is done.

You asked for it, Capt.!

On Nov 9, 7:41 pm, Captain Paralytic <paul_laut...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 9 Nov, 17:11, "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:> Hmmmm - maybe I should take my own advice, eh?
> > You trust me?
>
> Now there is the big question! I hate subcontracting out. The stress
> is terrible.
>
> I'm in the UK and recently I had a client in Australia and I subbed
> some of the work out to one of my guys in the States. Matching all the
> different timezones for status updates was a nightmare, especially
> when I couldn't get in touch with the guy in the States.
>
> At least if I know I'm gonna miss a deadline I know exactly what's
> going on. BTW, the job mentioned above went OK and the client was very
> happy, but the stress....

Don't justify your self. Admit you're not capable of doing business so
that
everyone who sees the post knows not to take you. ;-)