I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.

$headers = "From: $from\r\n";
$headers .= "Content-type: text/html\r\n";

mail($to, $subject, $message, $headers);

This is the important info on the mail. The subject is a string, the
$to and the $from are emails and the $message is HTML.
?>

RageARC wrote:
> I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
> gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
> are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.
>
> $headers = "From: $from\r\n";
> $headers .= "Content-type: text/html\r\n";
>
> mail($to, $subject, $message, $headers);
>
> This is the important info on the mail. The subject is a string, the
> $to and the $from are emails and the $message is HTML.
> ?>
>

To start with, get a copy of an email which was received Ok by HotMail,
and one of yours which was rejected.

Start by comparing the headers. Most of the time that will show a problem.

Other possibilities include your server being on a spam blacklist, etc.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

RageARC wrote:
> I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
> gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
> are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.
>
> $headers = "From: $from\r\n";
> $headers .= "Content-type: text/html\r\n";
>
> mail($to, $subject, $message, $headers);
>
> This is the important info on the mail. The subject is a string, the
> $to and the $from are emails and the $message is HTML.
> ?>

What you send through the mail relays isn't always what's received by
the final recipient. A lot of headers get mucked with in transit.

So, to get a solid answer - you need one of those bounced messages.

Still, the most likely problem is that Hotmail actually black-listed
your domain, or more likely your domain's mail relay. So for example,
even though your domain is "honest.com", you may find that you're
sending your mail through "spammer.de".

It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.

Sanders Kaufman wrote:
> RageARC wrote:
>> I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
>> gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
>> are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.
>>
>> $headers = "From: $from\r\n";
>> $headers .= "Content-type: text/html\r\n";
>>
>> mail($to, $subject, $message, $headers);
>>
>> This is the important info on the mail. The subject is a string, the
>> $to and the $from are emails and the $message is HTML.
>> ?>
>
> What you send through the mail relays isn't always what's received by
> the final recipient. A lot of headers get mucked with in transit.
>
> So, to get a solid answer - you need one of those bounced messages.
>
> Still, the most likely problem is that Hotmail actually black-listed
> your domain, or more likely your domain's mail relay. So for example,
> even though your domain is "honest.com", you may find that you're
> sending your mail through "spammer.de".
>
> It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
> party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
> default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.

Mails should not be relayed. They should go directly from your MTA to
the recipients MTA.

Relays are an indication of an insecure system - typically used by
spammers. But genuine MTA's don't use (or need) them.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> Mails should not be relayed. They should go directly from your MTA to
> the recipients MTA.
>
> Relays are an indication of an insecure system - typically used by
> spammers. But genuine MTA's don't use (or need) them.

Actually - thoroughly secured email systems make use of more than just
those two.

In large, well-secured, corporate email systems, mail often goes through
several relays that perform various security actions.

At Nortel, they relay through several Exchange servers on the way out
of, and into, the network. At GTE, they relay(ed) through a wildly
complex Banyan Vines system.

It's sometimes quite interesting to check out the headers on various
corporate emails because they go through SO MUCH e-bureaucracy.

Sanders Kaufman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> Mails should not be relayed. They should go directly from your MTA to
>> the recipients MTA.
>>
>> Relays are an indication of an insecure system - typically used by
>> spammers. But genuine MTA's don't use (or need) them.
>
> Actually - thoroughly secured email systems make use of more than just
> those two.
>
> In large, well-secured, corporate email systems, mail often goes through
> several relays that perform various security actions.
>
> At Nortel, they relay through several Exchange servers on the way out
> of, and into, the network. At GTE, they relay(ed) through a wildly
> complex Banyan Vines system.
>
> It's sometimes quite interesting to check out the headers on various
> corporate emails because they go through SO MUCH e-bureaucracy.
>

You're right - internally they may be relayed. But once they're out of
the intranet and into the internet, there should be no relays.

I was referring to the publicly visible site - and I should have made
myself more clear about it.

Thanks for the correction.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Sanders Kaufman wrote:

>> It's sometimes quite interesting to check out the headers on various
>> corporate emails because they go through SO MUCH e-bureaucracy.
>
> You're right - internally they may be relayed. But once they're out of
> the intranet and into the internet, there should be no relays.

Nicht vahr - there are perfectly good reasons to relay there, as well.

For example I have my domain (kaufman.net) which hosts several client
domains. They want me to provide some value-added services to their
email without them having to get involved.

So what I do is relay their mail through kaufman.net. That way, when
they check their POP or send via SMTP, they don't have to concern
themselves with incoming spam filtering and outgoing content management.
(In truth, I don't do very much - but it makes them *feel* better.)


> I was referring to the publicly visible site - and I should have made
> myself more clear about it.

What do you mean by "publicly visible"?
NorTel.com is a publicly visible site.
As was GTE.
As are my clients.

Hello,

on 09/16/2007 12:27 PM RageARC said the following:
> I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
> gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
> are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.
>
> $headers = "From: $from\r\n";
> $headers .= "Content-type: text/html\r\n";
>
> mail($to, $subject, $message, $headers);
>
> This is the important info on the mail. The subject is a string, the
> $to and the $from are emails and the $message is HTML.
> ?>

You should never send HTML only messages. You can send HTML messages if
they have an alternative text part, like any regular mail program. Since
you do not do that, Hotmail correctly assumes you are not using a
regular mail program, and considers your message as junk.

To send HTML messages with an alternative text part, you need to compose
a multipart/alternative message and include both the text part and the
HTML part. This is a bit tricky to do manually. I use this MIME message
composing and sending class. Take a look at the example script
test_simple_html_mail_message.php .

http://www.phpclasses.org/mimemessage


--

Regards,
Manuel Lemos

Metastorage - Data object relational mapping layer generator
http://www.metastorage.net/

PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP
http://www.phpclasses.org/

On Sep 16, 8:27 pm, RageARC <rage...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
> gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
> are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.
>
> $headers = "From: $from\r\n";
> $headers .= "Content-type: text/html\r\n";
>
> mail($to, $subject, $message, $headers);
>
> This is the important info on the mail. The subject is a string, the
> $to and the $from are emails and the $message is HTML.
> ?>

U will face other problems as well like attachment etc. I also tried
very hard whenever I got job for mail and got success after hard work
if i got struck anywhere. That is useless if you have good free
package for this.
so check this: http://satya61229.blogspot.com/2007/...cripts_17.html

Sanders Kaufman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>>> It's sometimes quite interesting to check out the headers on various
>>> corporate emails because they go through SO MUCH e-bureaucracy.
>>
>> You're right - internally they may be relayed. But once they're out
>> of the intranet and into the internet, there should be no relays.
>
> Nicht vahr - there are perfectly good reasons to relay there, as well.
>
> For example I have my domain (kaufman.net) which hosts several client
> domains. They want me to provide some value-added services to their
> email without them having to get involved.
>
> So what I do is relay their mail through kaufman.net. That way, when
> they check their POP or send via SMTP, they don't have to concern
> themselves with incoming spam filtering and outgoing content management.
> (In truth, I don't do very much - but it makes them *feel* better.)
>
>
>> I was referring to the publicly visible site - and I should have made
>> myself more clear about it.
>
> What do you mean by "publicly visible"?
> NorTel.com is a publicly visible site.
> As was GTE.
> As are my clients.

You are not relaying them, then. You are acting as their mail MTA.

And NorTel's intranet servers are not publicly available. Nor are
GTE's. I don't know about your clients.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Sanders Kaufman:
> It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
> party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
> default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.

Can you tell me where I can get access to one?

Satya:
Does it send without going to spam box? This is for a job as well .

Satya wrote:

> U will face other problems as well like attachment etc. I also tried
> very hard whenever I got job for mail and got success after hard work
> if i got struck anywhere. That is useless if you have good free
> package for this.
> so check this: http://satya61229.blogspot.com/2007/...cripts_17.html

Wow Satya - you're in serious spam-mode today.

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> You are not relaying them, then. You are acting as their mail MTA.

That's what MTA's do - they relay mail.
You can't be an MTA without relaying mail.
If you do - you're a POP.

> And NorTel's intranet servers are not publicly available. Nor are
> GTE's. I don't know about your clients.

That depends on your defintion of "publicly available".

RageARC wrote:
> Sanders Kaufman:
>> It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
>> party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
>> default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.
>
> Can you tell me where I can get access to one?

I can offer the service via Kaufman.net, hosted on APlus.net.
Let's say - $25/mo for the server service.
Then the SSL service will cost $100/yr.
Total $400/yr.

If you're comfortable with that kind of twidgetry, you can set it up
yourself for about the same. If I do it, I can bundle it in with other
services I already use and it costs me about half that.

Ask around - I'm trustworthy, but you have to pay up front.


> Satya:
> Does it send without going to spam box? This is for a job as well .

That depends on your definition of "spam box".

LOL $25 + $100 is $400 xD?
I really only need the mail service, no other extra mumbo jumbo.

With spam box I mean that when people receive the mail on their
hotmail, gmail, yahoo, aol, etc. my mails WILL appear on the inbox,
and not on the junk.

Have you tried sending it with no additional headers, have you tried
sending it without a carriage return in the headers (\r)?

On Sep 17, 3:38 pm, Sanders Kaufman <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
> RageARC wrote:
> > Sanders Kaufman:
> >> It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
> >> party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
> >> default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.
>
> > Can you tell me where I can get access to one?
>
> I can offer the service via Kaufman.net, hosted on APlus.net.
> Let's say - $25/mo for the server service.
> Then the SSL service will cost $100/yr.
> Total $400/yr.
>
> If you're comfortable with that kind of twidgetry, you can set it up
> yourself for about the same. If I do it, I can bundle it in with other
> services I already use and it costs me about half that.
>
> Ask around - I'm trustworthy, but you have to pay up front.
>
> > Satya:
> > Does it send without going to spam box? This is for a job as well .
>
> That depends on your definition of "spam box".

RageARC wrote:

> With spam box I mean that when people receive the mail on their
> hotmail, gmail, yahoo, aol, etc. my mails WILL appear on the inbox,
> and not on the junk.

Well, in that case - you should follow the advice that other fellow gave
you.

The most likely reason you're getting bounced is because the message
format is invalid.

You commented that the message isn't even getting as far as their junk
mail box, right? Not that it was getting tagged as spam, but that
Hotmail just black-holed it, right?

That's because just sending an HTML without a text alternative is not
just a spammy thing to do - it's technically busted at the protocol
level. So if one filter doesn't gitcha, the other one will.

Fix that and you'll save yourself a whole lotta hassle.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:05:50 +0200, RageARC <ragearc@gmail.com> wrote:

> LOL $25 + $100 is $400 xD?

(12 * 25) + 100 is.

You're almost better of with your own VPS though.
--
Rik Wasmus

On 16 Sep, 21:55, Sanders Kaufman <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
> RageARC wrote:
> > I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
> > gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
> > are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.
<snip>
>
> It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
> party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
> default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.

?

Certainly you will have problems sending mail from a known DHCP
address (on Unix/Linux try a null mailer going through a registered
MX) if you have an MX address on the origin already, make sure you've
got a sensible SPF enabled in your DNS.

At the end of the day, though, the Hotmail service is worth exactly
what most users pay for it. And don't expect any from them as to
why mail gets detected as SPAM.

C.

Thank you all I'm gonna try PHPMailer and then tell you something, ok?

Sanders Kaufman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> You are not relaying them, then. You are acting as their mail MTA.
>
> That's what MTA's do - they relay mail.
> You can't be an MTA without relaying mail.
> If you do - you're a POP.
>
>> And NorTel's intranet servers are not publicly available. Nor are
>> GTE's. I don't know about your clients.
>
> That depends on your defintion of "publicly available".

MTA's are capable of relaying. But if they are configured correctly
they do not, except to intranets. Spammers love those which are
configured as open relays. They have lists of them all over the world.

And POP refers to Post Office Protocol - a protocol for RETRIEVING
messages. POP servers by themselves are not capable of receiving email
using the SMTP protocol (the one used for sending mail on the internet).
You need an MTA to receive the email and deliver it to the POP server.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

RageARC wrote:
> Sanders Kaufman:
>> It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
>> party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
>> default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.
>
> Can you tell me where I can get access to one?
>
> Satya:
> Does it send without going to spam box? This is for a job as well .
>

Probably not. The most common reason for email going into spam
mailboxes is incorrect headers in the email - especially FROM: headers.
This can be caused by incorrect PHP code (or PHP configuration), an
incorrect MTA configuration, or a conflict between the MTA's headers and
the PHP headers (i.e. sending mail from www.example.com and saying it's
from satya@example.org).

Other spam filters look at the sending MTA, and if it's from a dynamic
address (most often home users), flag it as spam. (see below)

Less often, particularly if you have a good hosting company, email from
a server can be flagged as spam because someone else on your server has
sent spam and caused the server to be blacklisted. A good hosting
company will cancel the account immediately, stopping the spam, and the
server will be taken off the blacklists within 24-48 hours.

BTW - When you set up to send email from your home machine (i.e. MS
Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.) you need to specify a server - typically
your ISP or hosting company. Even though your home computer would be on
a dynamic IP address, the ISP or hosting company's server is not - and
that is the one the email is coming from.

So the first place to start is to examine the headers and compare a
working one with one flagged as spam (preferably from the same server).
Investigate any differences.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Sanders Kaufman wrote:

> MTA's are capable of relaying. But if they are configured correctly
> they do not, except to intranets. Spammers love those which are
> configured as open relays. They have lists of them all over the world.

I like the way you wobble back and forth on that.
It's not a realy - except when it is.

And then that slick way you seguay from relays, to open relays - as if
all relays were open.

That last, of course, is why I suggested that the OP use an SSL secured
mail relay.

> And POP refers to Post Office Protocol - a protocol for RETRIEVING

Actually, that's just one definition in just one context. In fact, POP
is an engineering term, not limited to the email, that means
"Point-of-Presence".

Thus, like I said a Message Transfer Agent that doesn't transfer (relay)
the messages is just a POP.




> messages. POP servers by themselves are not capable of receiving email
> using the SMTP protocol (the one used for sending mail on the internet).
> You need an MTA to receive the email and deliver it to the POP server.

Hmmm - if only there were an engineering term to describe that "receive
and deliver" process; a word that engineers have been using since the
first bucket brigade. Something like "replay" but without the sports
metaphor?

Rik Wasmus wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:05:50 +0200, RageARC <ragearc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> LOL $25 + $100 is $400 xD?
>
> (12 * 25) + 100 is.
>
> You're almost better of with your own VPS though.

Yeah - if you want to secure your email, outsourcing it is not the best
strategy for success.

C. wrote:
> On 16 Sep, 21:55, Sanders Kaufman <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>> RageARC wrote:
>>> I've made a script that sends mails, and it sends mails correctly for
>>> gMail, but not for Hotmail. What happens is that on Hotmail the mails
>>> are not even received! Nor on spam box, nor on inbox.
> <snip>
>> It may cost a nickel or two, but sending your mail out through a third
>> party SMTP server that uses SSL, instead of your hosting providers
>> default mail relay may allow the mail to go through.
>
> ?

If you're on a black-hole list, it's easier to find a new relay than to
try to fight the most powerful force in the universe.

If you use SSL to connect to the SMTP relay, your login credentials
can't easily be "sniffed".


> Certainly you will have problems sending mail from a known DHCP
> address (on Unix/Linux try a null mailer going through a registered
> MX) if you have an MX address on the origin already, make sure you've
> got a sensible SPF enabled in your DNS.

SPF?


> At the end of the day, though, the Hotmail service is worth exactly
> what most users pay for it. And don't expect any from them as to
> why mail gets detected as SPAM.

When I first started participating in Usenet Political discussions, I
used my hotmail address - then one day I tried to login and got a "go to
hell, you spammer" denial message. Same thing with Yahoo.

Screw 'em, both.