Hi, I live in the UK so would appreciate the opinions of UK PHP
programmers formost but not only.

I really want to get into the PHP development industry. Im 25 years
old and live in Manchester. I dont have a Degree but I do have a good
A-Level in Computing where I learned to program in Turbo Pascal.

In December I finish my Undergraduate Certificate in Web Applications
Development which I have been working on for the last two years with
the Open University.

It covered lots of good stuff like XHTML/CSS/Javascript and various
scripting languages such as ColdFusion/ASP (not dot net) using
VBScript/PHP and SQL with loads of standards stuff and much more.

I have also been using PHP as a 'serious' hobby for the last few years
and trying my best to learn all I can about the language, even though
I've only just started learning OOP stuff in the last month or so.

Ive been reading several books such as Zend Certification Study Guide/
PHP5 Objects, Patterns and Practice etc and hope to take the ZCE soon.

The thing is, the more i read, the more i find that i 'should' know
but I dont, such as loads of Design Patterns and Frameworks and such.

What i would like advice on is how much am I really expected to know
when first starting out? Should i know all about design patterns/
frameworks/PEAR extensions etc or do you pick this stuff up along the
way?

What I would like is any advice of what I should and shoulnt be doing
in order to get my first PHP dev job. Or what i should definately
know, and not bother with?

What routes do you guys come from?

Surely if I go for a 'Junior PHP Developer' position, they cant expect
me to know "everything" right? or do they?


Any advice appreciated,

Regards,

Paul.

"macca" <ptmcnally@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1189530309.389957.40220@r34g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi, I live in the UK so would appreciate the opinions of UK PHP
> programmers formost but not only.
>
> I really want to get into the PHP development industry. Im 25 years
> old and live in Manchester. I dont have a Degree but I do have a good
> A-Level in Computing where I learned to program in Turbo Pascal.
>
> In December I finish my Undergraduate Certificate in Web Applications
> Development which I have been working on for the last two years with
> the Open University.
>
> It covered lots of good stuff like XHTML/CSS/Javascript and various
> scripting languages such as ColdFusion/ASP (not dot net) using
> VBScript/PHP and SQL with loads of standards stuff and much more.
>
> I have also been using PHP as a 'serious' hobby for the last few years
> and trying my best to learn all I can about the language, even though
> I've only just started learning OOP stuff in the last month or so.
>
> Ive been reading several books such as Zend Certification Study Guide/
> PHP5 Objects, Patterns and Practice etc and hope to take the ZCE soon.
>
> The thing is, the more i read, the more i find that i 'should' know
> but I dont, such as loads of Design Patterns and Frameworks and such.
>
> What i would like advice on is how much am I really expected to know
> when first starting out? Should i know all about design patterns/
> frameworks/PEAR extensions etc or do you pick this stuff up along the
> way?
>
> What I would like is any advice of what I should and shoulnt be doing
> in order to get my first PHP dev job. Or what i should definately
> know, and not bother with?
>
> What routes do you guys come from?
>
> Surely if I go for a 'Junior PHP Developer' position, they cant expect
> me to know "everything" right? or do they?
>
>
> Any advice appreciated,

as with everything in life, it depends. i've hired people before who had
zero php experience and only some programming exposure in general...but i
could tell they were logical, liked to company, and viewed the job as a
long-term committment...so, i invested in them and brought them up to speed.
others who were php gurus i wouldn't even throw them a bone when it was
apparent they were either just out for big money, using my company as a
short-term stepping stone, or were just flat-out prima donnas.

anything can be taught...except for things i value most, like loyalty,
respect, and fairness. being thoughtful on all levels of mentality is very
key, from logic to hospitality.

good luck.

> How do I become a professional PHP Developer in the UK?

Get a job as a PHP programmer. Seriously, there is no school like
practice. No theory can teach you the real world with real customers.

> It covered lots of good stuff like XHTML/CSS/Javascript and various
> scripting languages such as ColdFusion/ASP (not dot net) using
> VBScript/PHP and SQL with loads of standards stuff and much more.

Good. Know where you can find the standards when you look up something.
A fine set of colleagues to ask questions to or discuss things with get
you even further.

> I have also been using PHP as a 'serious' hobby for the last few years
> and trying my best to learn all I can about the language, even though
> I've only just started learning OOP stuff in the last month or so.

Learning OOP is good. Where I come from (not the UK), almost every PHP
job "requires" object oriented skills, but do not put it into practice.
Companies just ask it. They probably like the buzzword.

> The thing is, the more i read, the more i find that i 'should' know
> but I dont, such as loads of Design Patterns and Frameworks and such.

You will never get over it. As a programmer, and especially a web
programmer, there is an awful lot to know. You will never be finished
learning.

> What i would like advice on is how much am I really expected to know
> when first starting out? Should i know all about design patterns/
> frameworks/PEAR extensions etc or do you pick this stuff up along the
> way?

Pick them up along the way. Some patterns and frameworks seem so
complicated that doing it the quick and dirty way first can to see
the advantages.

> What I would like is any advice of what I should and shoulnt be doing
> in order to get my first PHP dev job. Or what i should definately
> know, and not bother with?

I can only recommend that you read a book about security in web
programming, since you seem to have some basis in the programming and
web standards.

> What routes do you guys come from?

I started as a technical draftsman, became a Lisp programmer, switched
to Visual Basic, then PHP, ASP(VB) .NET and came back screaming to PHP.

> Surely if I go for a 'Junior PHP Developer' position, they cant expect
> me to know "everything" right? or do they?

Off course not. And do not be ashamed to learn. A colleague who is
willing to learn is worth more than ten who think they know it all.

Good luck,
--
Willem Bogaerts

Application smith
Kratz B.V.
http://www.kratz.nl/

Willem Bogaerts wrote:
>> How do I become a professional PHP Developer in the UK?
>
> Get a job as a PHP programmer. Seriously, there is no school like
> practice. No theory can teach you the real world with real customers.

wanted:
PHP programmer
No experience necessary.
Fax resume to 1-800-555-dotbomb

On 11 Sep, 18:05, macca <ptmcna...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Surely if I go for a 'Junior PHP Developer' position, they cant expect
> me to know "everything" right? or do they?

Not for 15-24k, no.

macca said:
> Hi, I live in the UK so would appreciate the opinions of UK PHP
> programmers formost but not only.
>
Keep an eye on job advert. Even if they say "Looking for senior php dev", fire
of a CV with a cover letter explaining you have an interest in the area, some
small level of experience and are interested in a junior position and would
appreciate it if they would keep you in mind should any such positions come
up. Even if you take fairly low pay for the first 6 months, after proving
yourself to at least be a hard worker willing to learn it will only go up.

Best of luck.

D.
--
Fermat was right.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Being an outsider, its quite difficult to know what to expect when
first starting out.

Your comments are very ful and appreciated.

Regards,

Paul McNally.

Sanders Kaufman wrote:
> Willem Bogaerts wrote:
>>> How do I become a professional PHP Developer in the UK?
>>
>> Get a job as a PHP programmer. Seriously, there is no school like
>> practice. No theory can teach you the real world with real customers.
>
> wanted:
> PHP programmer
> No experience necessary.
> Fax resume to 1-800-555-dotbomb
>
>
>

Not at all. You need to start someplace! Normally larger companies are
better for entry level jobs; they have more resources to the newbie.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================