>So get yourself a personal website, hosted on a cheap, shared-host

Done this in the past. I also run a win2003 Server at home running
Apache/PHP/MySQL. Its not running on Linux/UNIX because i quite like
the fact that I can access it through a remote desktop
connection nice and easy through my laptop.

>linux box and start building it with php. Learn how to
>interact with a mysql database, even if it doesn't really
>accomplish anything at first. At least you'll get those skills.

Ive been using MySQL for a while now and can get php to interact with
it just fine. I can create databases/tables using MySQL's DDL(SQL),
design Entity-Relationship diagrams etc but I havent used PDO yet
though.


>Gradually work toward generating all your pages from code.
>Design and build your own content management system for
>displaying photos, dealing with file uploads, bulletin
>boards, etc.

I've done this also. I've created gallery website where people can
create accounts, upload images etc. It's not online any more though
because i was just trying to learn how to do it really, not have it
live.


I've created appointment booking systems using php calendar functions
and mysql such as http://www.valenciaworld.eu with back-end staff
searchable interfaces to the database.

Ive created a property auction website where the client can add
properties/images etc and the property is put on a timer with search
functionality linked to MySQL, dynamic thumnail genration etc but this
was never finished because the person who asked me to do it never paid
up!

Ive interacted with web services such as on the yahooAPI on
valenciaworld.eu etc

What I'm trying to say is that i CAN code. I can get things done. But
on a professional level, there will be certain ways of doing things
that i may not have stuck to such as design patterns and using OOP
techniques and stuff.

I think, after i finish my Web Apps course in December i'll take my
ZCE and start applying for jobs in the new year.

I may even brush up on my MySQL skills (which are already quite good
thanks to the Open Univerity) and consider the MySQL certification,
but this may be overkill before I start. I intend to do it anyway but
I could always do it and work at the same time I suppose.


Paul.

On Sep 12, 8:55 am, macca <ptmcna...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> What I'm trying to say is that i CAN code. I can get things done. But
> on a professional level, there will be certain ways of doing things
> Paul

I've spent the last 12 years working for the (Dilbert-like) man.
What I want now is to be self-employed again (did that for 20 years
in the building trades). I don't know about the UK, but cubicle
jobs are a dime a dozen over hear. Freelancing, and making a decent
living, is harder. And it has more to do with social networking skills
than
coding skills. That's what I'm working on.

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Sanders Kaufman wrote:

>> But you're probably right. I have noticed that experience and
>> competence aren't the highest priorities for large corporations.
>> Towing the corporate line can cover a LOT of shortcomings.
>
> I didn't say the company would hire programmers who don't know how to
> program!
>
> But many companies hire people with limited programming experience for
> entry level jobs. The employees don't have as many bad habits to unlearn.

Big corporations.
Blecch.


> I've been on some projects with "experienced programmers". They're fast
> and good, but some of them have been a real PITA with their
> "know-it-all" attitude.
>
> OTOH, I've had some relatively new programmers on projects. Sure, these
> guys are slower and need more . And they can't be expected to do
> more of the advanced work experienced programmers do. But they make up
> for it in their dedication. Experience is NOT everything.
>
> As for competence - I don't know any company who will put up with a
> person who's unable to do a job and not willing to learn to do it
> (unless there is a union involved). In most companies it has nothing to
> do with "toeing the corporate line" - rather a willingness and ability
> to improve. Not doing the job and not improving and you're gone.

That's not my experience with big corporations, but in my defense - my
experience with those kinds of folks is with telecom and marketing
companies which have, thank God, mostly been wiped from the face of the
Earth.

So when someone asks about good career paths - they're not tops on my
list of recommendations.

Sanders Kaufman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>>> But you're probably right. I have noticed that experience and
>>> competence aren't the highest priorities for large corporations.
>>> Towing the corporate line can cover a LOT of shortcomings.
>>
>> I didn't say the company would hire programmers who don't know how to
>> program!
>>
>> But many companies hire people with limited programming experience for
>> entry level jobs. The employees don't have as many bad habits to
>> unlearn.
>
> Big corporations.
> Blecch.
>
>

I don't know. I worked for IBM for 13 years. Left when I had a chance
to get a good separation package and start a consulting business.

Right now I'm almost (that's ALMOST) sorry I left, though. August 1st
would have been my 30th anniversary and I could have retired with a
so-so pension. But I've had a lot more fun than I would have ever had
by staying there, and seen a lot more of the world.

>> I've been on some projects with "experienced programmers". They're
>> fast and good, but some of them have been a real PITA with their
>> "know-it-all" attitude.
>>
>> OTOH, I've had some relatively new programmers on projects. Sure,
>> these guys are slower and need more . And they can't be expected
>> to do more of the advanced work experienced programmers do. But they
>> make up for it in their dedication. Experience is NOT everything.
>>
>> As for competence - I don't know any company who will put up with a
>> person who's unable to do a job and not willing to learn to do it
>> (unless there is a union involved). In most companies it has nothing
>> to do with "toeing the corporate line" - rather a willingness and
>> ability to improve. Not doing the job and not improving and you're gone.
>
> That's not my experience with big corporations, but in my defense - my
> experience with those kinds of folks is with telecom and marketing
> companies which have, thank God, mostly been wiped from the face of the
> Earth.
>

Now you know why. :-)

> So when someone asks about good career paths - they're not tops on my
> list of recommendations.

They do have their advantages.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

<comp.lang.php>
<macca>
<Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:05:09 -0000>
<1189530309.389957.40220@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups. com>

> Hi, I live in the UK so would appreciate the opinions of UK PHP
> programmers formost but not only.
>
> I really want to get into the PHP development industry. Im 25 years
> old and live in Manchester. I dont have a Degree but I do have a good
> A-Level in Computing where I learned to program in Turbo Pascal.
>

My advice would be to take a couple of months off and build some
database driven websites .

These can be anything and the actual theme doesnt really matter as you
would be showing any potential employers that your not a i can do this i
can do that type of day dreamer guy .

Some employers are more interested in you producing the goods rather
than knowing what to say at a interview .

Showing them a mini portfolio also shows a potential employer that you
can think for yourself and be creative and that your not a braindead
'feed the monkey' retard .

A question .....

Are you stupid to ignore a troll ? .


--
(c) The Amazing Krustov

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Sanders Kaufman wrote:

>> Big corporations.
>> Blecch.
>
> I don't know. I worked for IBM for 13 years. Left when I had a chance
> to get a good separation package and start a consulting business.

Yeah - the *pay* is good.


> Right now I'm almost (that's ALMOST) sorry I left, though. August 1st
> would have been my 30th anniversary and I could have retired with a
> so-so pension. But I've had a lot more fun than I would have ever had
> by staying there, and seen a lot more of the world.

I suppose one could say that corporations are like High Schools.
Some people find that's the place for them - and never leave.
Some leave - but pine forever for the good old days.
The rest - graduate.


>> So when someone asks about good career paths - they're not tops on my
>> list of recommendations.
>
> They do have their advantages.

Yeah - the same advantages as military service.

Krustov wrote:

> My advice would be to take a couple of months off and build some
> database driven websites .

I gotta agree - whether you're experienced or a newbie - that's the best
advice today.

At the beginning of the dotcom, just *wanting* a programmer job was
enough to get one.

But now, now that there are a lot of experienced web developers around,
you gotta show your chops - and that means pointing a prospective
employer at a web site or two.

I don't have any world-facing web sites, so now that I'm trying to get a
"real" job, I'm having a heck of a time when I get asked to show
examples of my work.

And I've been programming professionally since WELL before the turn of
the century.