Dear all,

how many of you have done the job of interviewer for selecting a C
programmer(fresh out of college) ?

what are the main aspects that you guys look at ?

Is it technical skills
OR
just soft skills and personality coupled with meager technical
knowledge ?

what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?

sophia.agnes@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> how many of you have done the job of interviewer for selecting a C
> programmer(fresh out of college) ?
>
> what are the main aspects that you guys look at ?
>
I used to handle most of the graduate recruitment for a medium sized
company (we took up to 20 graduates a year), so I have probably
interviewed more than most...

I was (and still am) mainly interested in how a graduate thinks and how
they will fit in. I tend to ask questions I don't expect them to able
able to answer and nudge them towards the answer to see how they get
there. As part of an interview, I will get them to spend some time with
the team, to see how they work with others.

> Is it technical skills
> OR
> just soft skills and personality coupled with meager technical
> knowledge ?
>
Mainly the latter. I tend to base my technical appraisal on their
explanation of a project they have completed.

> what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?

Their ability to fit in.

--
Ian Collins.

On one contract, I was asked to design a set of interview questions.
The person being interviewed would be told, "Even the guys who taught Bill
Gates wouldn't have all the answers."

The responses were grades as:

1. Knew the answer.
2. Didn't know the answer but had a pretty good idea on what would be
needed or where to find it.
3. Didn't know the answer and said so.
4. Tried to fake it.

Answers of types 1 and 2 were good candidates for hire.
Type 3 was a good possibility for hire as long as there were enough answers
of types 1 and 2. The person was willing to admit he/she didn't know
everything.

Any answers of type 4 were immediately disqualified.

Gene Pallat

Orion Data Systems
Orion Forensics

<sophia.agnes@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:78472578-9329-4b15-871b-686dd588c250@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> Dear all,
>
> how many of you have done the job of interviewer for selecting a C
> programmer(fresh out of college) ?
>
> what are the main aspects that you guys look at ?
>
> Is it technical skills
> OR
> just soft skills and personality coupled with meager technical
> knowledge ?
>
> what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?

In article
<78472578-9329-4b15-871b-686dd588c250@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
sophia.agnes@gmail.com wrote:
>
> what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?

Last time I was involved in interviewing people, when we looked back on
all the people we'd hired, and which ones turned out to be good and
which ones turned out not so good, the one thing that best correlated
with goodness, it turned out, was a group of questions we asked just to
get some personality information and break the ice before getting into
tough technical questions: read any good books lately? How much do you
read?

I have no idea why, but everyone who turned out good was a heavy reader.
And not just the stereotypical science fiction and fantasy...they tended
to read a variety of genres of fiction, and also non-fiction. Many had
a book with them, in case they had to wait for their interview.

It's been a few years, so I may be misremembering, but I think this went
the other way, too. Among the bad people, none were heavy readers.


--
--Tim Smith

On Feb 3, 12:45 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> sophia.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Dear all,
>
> > how many of you have done the job of interviewer for selecting a C
> > programmer(fresh out of college) ?
>
> > what are the main aspects that you guys look at ?
>
> I used to handle most of the graduate recruitment for a medium sized
> company (we took up to 20 graduates a year), so I have probably
> interviewed more than most...
>
> I was (and still am) mainly interested in how a graduate thinks and how
> they will fit in. I tend to ask questions I don't expect them to able
> able to answer and nudge them towards the answer to see how they get
> there. As part of an interview, I will get them to spend some time with
> the team, to see how they work with others.
>
> > Is it technical skills
> > OR
> > just soft skills and personality coupled with meager technical
> > knowledge ?
>
> Mainly the latter. I tend to base my technical appraisal on their
> explanation of a project they have completed.
>
> > what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?
>
> Their ability to fit in.
>
> --
> Ian Collins.

Then why bother about getting a computer science degree if technical
skills are not that relevant ?

Peter van der linden in his book expert C programming says that
the talent and skill required to do systems programming is so rare
that technical skill/knowledge becomes the single most criteria for
selection

sophia.agnes@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 3, 12:45 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?
>> Their ability to fit in.
>>
*Please* don't quote signatures.
>
> Then why bother about getting a computer science degree if technical
> skills are not that relevant ?
>
A good degree course teaches one how to learn. The possession of a good
degree shows that the candidate has learned how to think.

A degree is used as an initial screen of applicants, every one that gets
interviewed has one, so it comes down the the person. Very few
employers want to employ a brilliant sociopath.

> Peter van der linden in his book expert C programming says that
> the talent and skill required to do systems programming is so rare
> that technical skill/knowledge becomes the single most criteria for
> selection

That is more of an issue for the experienced programmer. It is a rare
thing for a new graduate to have the knowledge, the job of the
interviewer is to spot the talent, which is why I ask questions the
candidate has to think through to answer.

--
Ian Collins.

Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:

> sophia.agnes@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Feb 3, 12:45 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?
>>> Their ability to fit in.
>>>
> *Please* don't quote signatures.
>>
>> Then why bother about getting a computer science degree if technical
>> skills are not that relevant ?
>>
> A good degree course teaches one how to learn. The possession of a good
> degree shows that the candidate has learned how to think.
>
> A degree is used as an initial screen of applicants, every one that gets
> interviewed has one, so it comes down the the person. Very few
> employers want to employ a brilliant sociopath.
>
>> Peter van der linden in his book expert C programming says that
>> the talent and skill required to do systems programming is so rare
>> that technical skill/knowledge becomes the single most criteria for
>> selection
>
> That is more of an issue for the experienced programmer. It is a rare
> thing for a new graduate to have the knowledge, the job of the
> interviewer is to spot the talent, which is why I ask questions the
> candidate has to think through to answer.

One of the most sensible and accurate posts I have read here in c.l.c

Agreed 100%.

It would be fair to say that few, if any, of the c.l.c clique would pass
any interviews I have been involved in during the past 20 years of
technical projects. They would be branded as antisocial misfits who
would tend to fragment any team to which they were assigned.

On Feb 5, 1:24 am, Richard <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > sophia.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Feb 3, 12:45 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?
> >>> Their ability to fit in.
>
> > *Please* don't quote signatures.
>
> >> Then why bother about getting a computer science degree if technical
> >> skills are not that relevant ?
>
> > A good degree course teaches one how to learn. The possession of a good
> > degree shows that the candidate has learned how to think.
>
> > A degree is used as an initial screen of applicants, every one that gets
> > interviewed has one, so it comes down the the person. Very few
> > employers want to employ a brilliant sociopath.
>
> >> Peter van der linden in his book expert C programming says that
> >> the talent and skill required to do systems programming is so rare
> >> that technical skill/knowledge becomes the single most criteria for
> >> selection
>
> > That is more of an issue for the experienced programmer. It is a rare
> > thing for a new graduate to have the knowledge, the job of the
> > interviewer is to spot the talent, which is why I ask questions the
> > candidate has to think through to answer.
>
> One of the most sensible and accurate posts I have read here in c.l.c
>
> Agreed 100%.
>
> It would be fair to say that few, if any, of the c.l.c clique would pass
> any interviews I have been involved in during the past 20 years of
> technical projects. They would be branded as antisocial misfits who
> would tend to fragment any team to which they were assigned.

What makes you say that

"They would be branded as antisocial misfits who would tend to
fragment any team to which they were assigned."

Got any personal experience ?

I don't think everyone who is a member of C.L.C is like that

sophia.agnes@gmail.com wrote:

> On Feb 5, 1:24 am, Richard <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > sophia.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Feb 3, 12:45 pm, Ian Collins <ian-n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>> what aspect of the candidate is given prime importance ?
>> >>> Their ability to fit in.
>>
>> > *Please* don't quote signatures.
>>
>> >> Then why bother about getting a computer science degree if
>> >> technical skills are not that relevant ?
>>
>> > A good degree course teaches one how to learn. The possession of a
>> > good degree shows that the candidate has learned how to think.
>>
>> > A degree is used as an initial screen of applicants, every one that
>> > gets
>> > interviewed has one, so it comes down the the person. Very few
>> > employers want to employ a brilliant sociopath.
>>
>> >> Peter van der linden in his book expert C programming says that
>> >> the talent and skill required to do systems programming is so rare
>> >> that technical skill/knowledge becomes the single most criteria
>> >> for selection
>>
>> > That is more of an issue for the experienced programmer. It is a
>> > rare thing for a new graduate to have the knowledge, the job of the
>> > interviewer is to spot the talent, which is why I ask questions the
>> > candidate has to think through to answer.
>>
>> One of the most sensible and accurate posts I have read here in c.l.c
>>
>> Agreed 100%.
>>
>> It would be fair to say that few, if any, of the c.l.c clique would
>> pass any interviews I have been involved in during the past 20 years
>> of technical projects. They would be branded as antisocial misfits
>> who would tend to fragment any team to which they were assigned.
>
> What makes you say that
>
> "They would be branded as antisocial misfits who would tend to
> fragment any team to which they were assigned."
>
> Got any personal experience ?

I have had colleagues who have been demoted and/or fired because they
just couldn't work in a "team" atmosphere. "Team spirit" and "soft
skills" have (IMO unfortunately) become more or less essential
attributes to get (and hold) a successful IT job.

> I don't think everyone who is a member of C.L.C is like that

He did say the "c.l.c clique" didn't he? OTOH this "clique" is merely a
knee-jerk response of a few posters to a few others. The vast majority
of the group might do well to pay them no mind.

yes its true. No body wants in the computer business wants to employ a
person with poor social skills/personality. And if you do get employe,
you will find it hard to keep the job. I have personally experienced
that. I rarely talk to anyone at my job because of my social phobia
and other issues. A lot of people(who are normal) who do not
understand it seem to take it as an offense(probably thinking im rude
or haughty) and work against me.

sophia.agnes@gmail.com wrote:

> On Feb 5, 1:24 am, Richard <de...@gmail.com> wrote:

[blither blather]

> What makes you say that

He is a troll, whose goal is to disrupt the newsgroup and harrass the
regulars. I'd suggest killfiling him, but I see you use Google Groups.





Brian

In article <60rnv5F1s06c5U1@mid.individual.net>,
Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>sophia.agnes@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Feb 5, 1:24 am, Richard <de...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>[blither blather]
>
>> What makes you say that
>
>He is a troll, whose goal is to disrupt the newsgroup and harrass the
>regulars. I'd suggest killfiling him, but I see you use Google Groups.

In the spirit of continued disclosure, note that Default Loser is a form
of life posessed of far less self-respect than a troll (a group of which
I am a proud member in good standing), who only comes out of his burrow to
post stupid TPA messages and otherwise carp at us trolls.

It is rumored that it (the Loser) posted something of value to this
group sometime back in 2004, but that report is unconfirmed.