Darren J Longhorn said:

> On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:20:01 +0000, Richard Heathfield
> <rjh@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Charlie Gordon said:
>>
>>> "Richard Heathfield" <rjh@see.sig.invalid> a écrit dans le message de
>>> news: MuedndFOuITt5r7anZ2dnUVZ8qOknZ2d@bt.com...
>>>> Army1987 said:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Since the ++ in ++x is one token, to be pedantic that's not a
>>>>> one-to-one correspondence. How you distinguish it from `+ +x`?
>>>>
>>>> In the same way that you distinguish "notable" from "no table" - i.e.
>>>> by the appropriate use of brief but significant pauses.
>>>
>>> non sequitur. "notable" and "no table" are distinguishable essentially
>>> because they are pronounced with different phonemes.
>>
>><sigh> Okay then - "berated" and "be rated". Sheesh, Charlie!
>
> <delurk>
> This is probably one of those accent things, but they're not
> pronounced the same way either, 'down our way'...
> </delurk>

Welcome to Nonlurkland. :-) Up our way, they /are/ pronounced the same
way, except for the small but significant pause in the second one (which
is why it's a good parallel). Down your way, substitute two expressions
which *would* be pronounced in the same way if not for the space.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

Charlie Gordon said:

<snip>

> But how do you distinguish "be rated" from "B rated" ?

Context.

Anyway, your new example is an analogy to a different C question. The
original question was how to distinguish ++n from + +n, for which
"berated" vs "be rated" was a reasonable analogy. But distinguishing "be
rated" from "B rated" is a problem that is closer to, say, "+ +n" vs "+
plusn".

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

In article <4723d1e8$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Peter Pichler
<usenet@pichler.co.uk> writes
>Charlie Gordon wrote:
>
>> But how do you distinguish "be rated" from "B rated" ?
>
>How do you distinguish between "there" and "their", "which" and
>"witch", "its" and "it's", "whether" and "weather"...?
>
>Good job we don't need to read C source out loud that often.

I once had a support call 2 minutes before the end of the working day
and he refused to email over the code example but started to read it out
over the phone and expected me to solve the problem. It contained some
nested structures to start with.....

That was fun!
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Richard Heathfield wrote:

> The original question was how to distinguish ++n from + +n, for which
> "berated" vs "be rated" was a reasonable analogy. But distinguishing "be
> rated" from "B rated" is a problem that is closer to, say, "+ +n" vs "+
> plusn".

That would be easy for me. I would pronounce the former "plus plusen"
and the latter "plus plusn".

On Oct 22, 11:43 am, Franz Hose <franz_hose_199...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
> 1. '\0'
>
> 2. '\n', '\a', '\b', '\f', etc.

My pronunciations: "backslash 0", "backslash n", etc.

> 3. NULL, nul (how to distinguish these two?)

"null", and i assume you mean "ascii nul"

> 4. char (3 possible ways I've heard are 4a) like the 1st syllable in
> "character", 4b) like "char coal", and 4c) like "car"

"char" (as in charcoal)

> 5. Motif (like "motive" or more like the French word?)

mow teef

> 6. x = y, x == y (how to distinguish these two?)

"x equals y" for both, context sufficient to disambiguate.
(If unclear, "x single equals y" and "x double equals y")

> 7. ++x, x++, x += n

"plus plus x", "x plus plus", "x plus equals n"

> 8. argc, argv

"arg-see", "arg-vee"

Marjancek <marjancek@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 25, 8:22 am, Justin Spahr-Summers
> <Justin.SpahrSumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 25, 5:41 am, Chris Hills <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
> > > Hence is it C-pound or C-hash for C# ?
> >
> > It's officially "C sharp." Of course, why someone would even use such
> > a symbol in the name of a language is beyond me.
>
> If you pay attention, the '#' symbol can be made of two '+' (with a
> subtle vertical and horizontal offset).

True, but irrelevant, since (as I'm semi-reliably informed) Sheesh is a
cheap knock-off of Java, not of C++.

Richard

Old Wolf wrote:


> > 5. Motif (like "motive" or more like the French word?)
>
> mow teef

Is that "mow" as in "bow"?



Brian

Default User said:

> Old Wolf wrote:
>
>
>> > 5. Motif (like "motive" or more like the French word?)
>>
>> mow teef
>
> Is that "mow" as in "bow"?

Is that "bow" as in "arrow", or "bow" as in "curtsey"?

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

In article <47258c02.930234095@news.xs4all.nl>, Richard Bos
<rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> writes
>Marjancek <marjancek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 25, 8:22 am, Justin Spahr-Summers
>> <Justin.SpahrSumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Oct 25, 5:41 am, Chris Hills <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>> > > Hence is it C-pound or C-hash for C# ?
>> >
>> > It's officially "C sharp." Of course, why someone would even use such
>> > a symbol in the name of a language is beyond me.
>>
>> If you pay attention, the '#' symbol can be made of two '+' (with a
>> subtle vertical and horizontal offset).
>
>True, but irrelevant, since (as I'm semi-reliably informed) Sheesh is a
>cheap knock-off of Java, not of C++.
>Richard

What is Sheesh?

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"Richard Bos" <rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> a écrit dans le message de news:
47258c02.930234095@news.xs4all.nl...
> Marjancek <marjancek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 25, 8:22 am, Justin Spahr-Summers
>> <Justin.SpahrSumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Oct 25, 5:41 am, Chris Hills <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>> > > Hence is it C-pound or C-hash for C# ?
>> >
>> > It's officially "C sharp." Of course, why someone would even use such
>> > a symbol in the name of a language is beyond me.
>>
>> If you pay attention, the '#' symbol can be made of two '+' (with a
>> subtle vertical and horizontal offset).
>
> True, but irrelevant, since (as I'm semi-reliably informed) Sheesh is a
> cheap knock-off of Java, not of C++.

If by cheap you mean "not expensive", you are right, both are free albeit
not open source.
If you mean "low quality", you have been misinformed.

--
Chqrlie.

Franz Hose <franz_hose_1993AD@yahoo.dk> writes:

> so how do professional programmers pronounce these things?

I seem to be in the majority except for:

> 6. x = y

"becomes" or "gets" (when I say it a lot)

> 7. x += n

"plus becomes". Ugly, but there are not C recitation prizes.

--
Ben.

Richard Heathfield wrote:

> Default User said:
>
> > Old Wolf wrote:
> >
> >
> >> > 5. Motif (like "motive" or more like the French word?)
> >>
> >> mow teef
> >
> > Is that "mow" as in "bow"?
>
> Is that "bow" as in "arrow", or "bow" as in "curtsey"?


Yes.



Brian

Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> writes:
> In article <47258c02.930234095@news.xs4all.nl>, Richard Bos
> <rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> writes
>>Marjancek <marjancek@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 25, 8:22 am, Justin Spahr-Summers
>>> <Justin.SpahrSumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Oct 25, 5:41 am, Chris Hills <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>> > > Hence is it C-pound or C-hash for C# ?
>>> >
>>> > It's officially "C sharp." Of course, why someone would even use such
>>> > a symbol in the name of a language is beyond me.
>>>
>>> If you pay attention, the '#' symbol can be made of two '+' (with a
>>> subtle vertical and horizontal offset).
>>
>>True, but irrelevant, since (as I'm semi-reliably informed) Sheesh is a
>>cheap knock-off of Java, not of C++.
>>Richard
>
> What is Sheesh?

Presumably a snide reference to C#.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

On 21 Oct, 22:43, Franz Hose <franz_hose_199...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
> last week in class I witnessed somebody reading a C program to
> another person and they were having some difficulties because of
> different pronunciation of some C language terms...so how do
> professional programmers pronounce these things?

You've had a lot of answers already - good and amusing by parts - but
I don't think you've had all of these yet: (You'll note a higher
degree of pedantry here than in the other answers but you did say
people were reading these out in class so I assume we are talking to C
learners and I think the pedantry is apt)

> 1. '\0'

blip, backslash zero, blip

> 2. '\n', '\a', '\b', '\f', etc.

blip, backslash, blip etc

(Once a person is used to the idea that apostrophes are needed for
these the words, "blip," would no longer be needed.

> 3. NULL, nul (how to distinguish these two?)

Don't call a variable 'nul' and if you do spell it each time.

> 4. char (3 possible ways I've heard are 4a) like the 1st syllable in
> "character", 4b) like "char coal", and 4c) like "car"

The one I've heard most often is 4b: char as in coal

> 5. Motif (like "motive" or more like the French word?)

no idea how this relates to C!

> 6. x = y, x == y (how to distinguish these two?)

(I suspect the hacks will dislike this)
x equal(s) y, x equal(s) equal(s) y

> 7. ++x, x++, x += n

plus plus x, x plus plus, x plus equal n

> 8. argc, argv

arg C, arg V

You'll have to tell us which ones you would use ...........

James Harris wrote:
> On 21 Oct, 22:43, Franz Hose <franz_hose_199...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>> last week in class I witnessed somebody reading a C program to
>> another person and they were having some difficulties because of
>> different pronunciation of some C language terms...so how do
>> professional programmers pronounce these things?
>
> You've had a lot of answers already - good and amusing by parts - but
> I don't think you've had all of these yet: (You'll note a higher
> degree of pedantry here than in the other answers but you did say
> people were reading these out in class so I assume we are talking to C
> learners and I think the pedantry is apt)
>
>> 1. '\0'
>
> blip, backslash zero, blip
>
>> 2. '\n', '\a', '\b', '\f', etc.
>
> blip, backslash, blip etc
>
> (Once a person is used to the idea that apostrophes are needed for
> these the words, "blip," would no longer be needed.
>
>> 3. NULL, nul (how to distinguish these two?)
>
> Don't call a variable 'nul' and if you do spell it each time.
>
>> 4. char (3 possible ways I've heard are 4a) like the 1st syllable in
>> "character", 4b) like "char coal", and 4c) like "car"
>
> The one I've heard most often is 4b: char as in coal
>
>> 5. Motif (like "motive" or more like the French word?)
>
> no idea how this relates to C!
>
>> 6. x = y, x == y (how to distinguish these two?)
>
> (I suspect the hacks will dislike this)
> x equal(s) y, x equal(s) equal(s) y
>
>> 7. ++x, x++, x += n
>
> plus plus x, x plus plus, x plus equal n
>
>> 8. argc, argv
>
> arg C, arg V
>
> You'll have to tell us which ones you would use ...........
>
>
Victor Borge could explain this. RIP.

--
Joe Wright
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
--- Albert Einstein ---

On 29 Oct, 23:49, Joe Wright <joewwri...@comcast.net> wrote:
....
> Victor Borge could explain this. RIP.

Haha - a man of farsighted wisdom. He anticipated the introduction of
programming languages by decades. Maybe it was his desire to assist a
radio audience to learn to write code.....?

--
James

In article <D4WdncHbHtvs7LvanZ2dnUVZ_ufinZ2d@comcast.com>, Joe Wright
<joewwright@comcast.net> writes
>James Harris wrote:
>> On 21 Oct, 22:43, Franz Hose <franz_hose_199...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>> last week in class I witnessed somebody reading a C program to
>>> another person and they were having some difficulties because of
>>> different pronunciation of some C language terms...so how do
>>> professional programmers pronounce these things?

>>n
>>
>>> 8. argc, argv
>> arg C, arg V
>> You'll have to tell us which ones you would use ...........
>>
>Victor Borge could explain this. RIP.

Along with the barrel of bricks.........

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

On Oct 29, 2:30 am, r...@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
> Marjancek <marjan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 25, 8:22 am, Justin Spahr-Summers
> > <Justin.SpahrSumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 25, 5:41 am, Chris Hills <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
> > > > Hence is it C-pound or C-hash for C# ?
>
> > > It's officially "C sharp." Of course, why someone would even use such
> > > a symbol in the name of a language is beyond me.
>
> > If you pay attention, the '#' symbol can be made of two '+' (with a
> > subtle vertical and horizontal offset).
>
> True, but irrelevant, since (as I'm semi-reliably informed) Sheesh is a
> cheap knock-off of Java, not of C++.
>
> Richard

<lurching further OT>

At first glance C# is almost indistinguishable from Java, but there
are some subtle differences that give C# a slight edge IMO. I'm not
an expert in either language, but it seems that the C# event model is
a little saner than Java's, the .Net class libraries seem to be better
organized, and the property concept is interesting.

On 29 Oct, 23:49, Joe Wright <joewwri...@comcast.net> wrote:

....

> >> 6. x = y, x == y (how to distinguish these two?)
>
> > (I suspect the hacks will dislike this)
> > x equal(s) y, x equal(s) equal(s) y

....

> Victor Borge could explain this. RIP.

Haha. A man of vision! He predated and anticipated the pedanticism
needed for low level programming by a matter of decades. He also
considered how to explain linguistic detail to a radio audience. An
ideal example. :-)

Groovy hepcat Richard was jivin' in comp.lang.c on Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:01
am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

> Philip Potter <pgp@see.sig.invalid> writes:
>
>> Richard wrote:
>>>
>>> How do you pronounce printf or sprintf in one syllable in your head?
>>
>> I'm not sure what question you're asking. If you're asking "what does
>> it sound like?"
>
> yes....
>
>> then the end of "printf" is just like the 'ntf' of
>> "antfarm". I can't really explain it better than that...
>
> Sounds too hard to even consider and even then it sounds like 2
> syllables :-;

I also pronounce printf (and sprintf) as a single sillable, as Phillip
does. But maybe I should call it "function formerly known as
printf".

--
Dig the sig!

----------- Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood ------------
Ain't I'm a dawg!!