thatguy wrote:

> What I mean by that is, is Google trying to take over
> the search engine biz by using patents and buyouts and
> by trying to eliminate competition rather than respect
> the free market?

Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers" often are
not able to make the first year.

> And, I'm curious what you think are the long-term
> prospects of Google given the democratizing nature
> of the Internet.

The Internet is not a democracy

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thatguy wrote:

> What I mean by that is, is Google trying to take over
> the search engine biz by using patents and buyouts and
> by trying to eliminate competition rather than respect
> the free market?

Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers" often are
not able to make the first year.

> And, I'm curious what you think are the long-term
> prospects of Google given the democratizing nature
> of the Internet.

The Internet is not a democracy

--
John Perl SEO tools: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Experienced (web) developer: http://castleamber.com/
Get a SEO report of your site for just 100 USD:
http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-.html

John Bokma wrote:

> The Internet is not a democracy

You apparently haven't heard of P2P or ironically
Usenet.

John Bokma wrote:

> The Internet is not a democracy

You apparently haven't heard of P2P or ironically
Usenet.

thatguy wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> The Internet is not a democracy
>
> You apparently haven't heard of P2P or ironically
> Usenet.

Usenet is not a democracy:
<http://www.google.com/search?q=Usenet%20is%20not%20a%20democracy>

Same for P2P btw, ironically or not :-D.

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thatguy wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> The Internet is not a democracy
>
> You apparently haven't heard of P2P or ironically
> Usenet.

Usenet is not a democracy:
<http://www.google.com/search?q=Usenet%20is%20not%20a%20democracy>

Same for P2P btw, ironically or not :-D.

--
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John Bokma wrote:

>>>The Internet is not a democracy

OK, you got me. I misspoke. Perhaps Usenet is better
termed an anarchistic system with loose oversight.
P2P is also similar to anarchy, although to be pure
anarchy, pairings of users would have to occur
without any supervision or assistance from any server
or server operator. So P2P is near-anarchy.
As is the Internet itself, since nothing in the USA
can prevent any person at some IP address from
tryin to connect with another person at another IP
address, and possibly succeeding; except the govt,
which doesn't interfere much.

John Bokma wrote:

>>>The Internet is not a democracy

OK, you got me. I misspoke. Perhaps Usenet is better
termed an anarchistic system with loose oversight.
P2P is also similar to anarchy, although to be pure
anarchy, pairings of users would have to occur
without any supervision or assistance from any server
or server operator. So P2P is near-anarchy.
As is the Internet itself, since nothing in the USA
can prevent any person at some IP address from
tryin to connect with another person at another IP
address, and possibly succeeding; except the govt,
which doesn't interfere much.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:39:51 -0300, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
wrote:

> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers" often
> are
> not able to make the first year.


I have to agree on that
We live in a world of evil.

--
Thanks,

Justin.
http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:39:51 -0300, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
wrote:

> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers" often
> are
> not able to make the first year.


I have to agree on that
We live in a world of evil.

--
Thanks,

Justin.
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Justin Sane wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:39:51 -0300, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
>> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers"
>> often are
>> not able to make the first year.
>
> I have to agree on that
> We live in a world of evil.

I'm glad you said that, because logically, if we are to live
the Good Life, which requires that we follow the path of virtue,
we must fight evil. Or if that is impossible, we must avoid it.
To do neither would be cowardly.

Linux is heroic, for instance. Using Windows is certainly
unfortunate. For some people I'm sure using Windows is cowardly.

But using Google, that may just be cowardly.

tg

Justin Sane wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:39:51 -0300, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
>> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers"
>> often are
>> not able to make the first year.
>
> I have to agree on that
> We live in a world of evil.

I'm glad you said that, because logically, if we are to live
the Good Life, which requires that we follow the path of virtue,
we must fight evil. Or if that is impossible, we must avoid it.
To do neither would be cowardly.

Linux is heroic, for instance. Using Windows is certainly
unfortunate. For some people I'm sure using Windows is cowardly.

But using Google, that may just be cowardly.

tg

John Bokma wrote:

> thatguy wrote:
>
>> What I mean by that is, is Google trying to take over
>> the search engine biz by using patents and buyouts and
>> by trying to eliminate competition rather than respect
>> the free market?
>
> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers" often
> are not able to make the first year.


Google soon take great responsibility and need to retain their /loyalty/,
not just to the customer, but also to the thousands of Google employees who
have a spouse and kids...


>> And, I'm curious what you think are the long-term
>> prospects of Google given the democratizing nature
>> of the Internet.
>
> The Internet is not a democracy

Ideally it should be, but we are not quite there yet.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

John Bokma wrote:

> thatguy wrote:
>
>> What I mean by that is, is Google trying to take over
>> the search engine biz by using patents and buyouts and
>> by trying to eliminate competition rather than respect
>> the free market?
>
> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers" often
> are not able to make the first year.


Google soon take great responsibility and need to retain their /loyalty/,
not just to the customer, but also to the thousands of Google employees who
have a spouse and kids...


>> And, I'm curious what you think are the long-term
>> prospects of Google given the democratizing nature
>> of the Internet.
>
> The Internet is not a democracy

Ideally it should be, but we are not quite there yet.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

thatguy wrote:

> Justin Sane wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:39:51 -0300, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
>>> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers"
>>> often are
>>> not able to make the first year.
>>
>> I have to agree on that
>> We live in a world of evil.
>
> I'm glad you said that, because logically, if we are to live
> the Good Life, which requires that we follow the path of virtue,
> we must fight evil. Or if that is impossible, we must avoid it.
> To do neither would be cowardly.
>
> Linux is heroic, for instance. Using Windows is certainly
> unfortunate. For some people I'm sure using Windows is cowardly.
>
> But using Google, that may just be cowardly.

Have a look at this item from yesterday:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/6/12/143721/743

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

thatguy wrote:

> Justin Sane wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:39:51 -0300, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> Business as usual, when did you ever think it would be different?
>>> Companies that are in existence for "the good of their customers"
>>> often are
>>> not able to make the first year.
>>
>> I have to agree on that
>> We live in a world of evil.
>
> I'm glad you said that, because logically, if we are to live
> the Good Life, which requires that we follow the path of virtue,
> we must fight evil. Or if that is impossible, we must avoid it.
> To do neither would be cowardly.
>
> Linux is heroic, for instance. Using Windows is certainly
> unfortunate. For some people I'm sure using Windows is cowardly.
>
> But using Google, that may just be cowardly.

Have a look at this item from yesterday:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/6/12/143721/743

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> Have a look at this item from yesterday:
>
> http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/6/12/143721/743

Google's buyin' up more companies?

S'alright. They're the Old Guard. They behave like
Microsoft, Autodesk, China, the USSR. Their days are numbered.

Hold on a sec, did I equate corporate capitalism with communism?
Oh yeah, I did that

> Linux is heroic, for instance. Using Windows is certainly
> unfortunate. For some people I'm sure using Windows is cowardly.

what about the pirate versions...?

On Saturday 20 August 2005 09:42, Total Brain Delete wrote:

>
>> Linux is heroic, for instance. Using Windows is certainly
>> unfortunate. For some people I'm sure using Windows is cowardly.
>
> what about the pirate versions...?

Piracy is said to be one of the factors that allowed Microsoft to grow
decades ago, thus disseminating their proprietary.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz "In hell, treason is the work of angels"
http://Schestowitz.com

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.infosystems.search and
alt.internet.search-engines]

begin quotation
from thatguy <a@b.c>
in message <3PudnfsbRM-4jTLfRVn-oQ@comcast.com>
> What I mean by that is, is Google trying to take over
> the search engine biz by using patents and buyouts and
> by trying to eliminate competition rather than respect
> the free market? Are they trying to gain ownership of
> patents for certain kinds of data mining techniques
> to prevent other companies using them?

I would expect so, but this is going to bite them in the ass one day.
Patents are available for the world to read, and expire after 20 years.

> I'm curious what you all think.
>
> And, I'm curious what you think are the long-term
> prospects of Google given the democratizing nature
> of the Internet.

I trust Google as much as I trust Microsoft, and to give you an idea
of just how much that is, I'm posting this from a Debian GNU/Linux
workstation behind an OpenBSD firewall. I usually use Scroogle (a Google
scraper set up by the guy that runs <http://www.google-watch.org>),
and for Usenet searches, Privoxy (<http://www.privoxy.org>) set up
to route all requests for the various Google domains through Tor
(<http://tor.eff.org>). Obviously, the don't get accepted,
either.

--
___ _ _____ |*|
/ __| |/ / _ \ |*| Shawn K. Quinn
\__ \ ' < (_) | |*| skquinn@speakeasy.net
|___/_|\_\__\_\ |*| Houston, TX, USA

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.infosystems.search and
alt.internet.search-engines]

begin quotation
from Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com>
in message <de8pmq$22to$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
posted at 2005-08-21T01:06
> On Saturday 20 August 2005 09:42, Total Brain Delete wrote:
>
>>
>>> Linux is heroic, for instance. Using Windows is certainly
>>> unfortunate. For some people I'm sure using Windows is cowardly.
>>
>> what about the pirate versions...?
>
> Piracy is said to be one of the factors that allowed Microsoft to grow
> decades ago, thus disseminating their proprietary.

Really? I had no idea that Microsoft was into the business of robbing
ships on the high seas.

If you mean to say unauthorized copying of Microsoft proucts, that's
not surprising, unfortunately; the desire to one's neighbor
usually means that attempting to enforce fascist restrictions against
making copies is a losing battle. Even printing "Do Not Make Illegal
Copies Of This Disc" didn't really .

I'll get closer to topic in a moment, but I should note here this is
the exact same reason that Microsoft (or any software company that
sells binaries only and prohibits copying) should not be allowed to
pay off a judgement against them for illegal activity in merchandise.

Getting back to the topic at hand, there are few parallels to be
drawn. I guess you could call Scroogle and/or routing Google queries
via Tor the rough equivalent of making unauthorized copies of Windows.
However, the business model is entirely different; Google does
not charge the end users per query, they make their money through
advertising (and possibly, by selling information about what their
users search for, but I won't open that can of worms). For a while, I
exclusively used other search engines, such as Alltheweb and Altavista
(which I think are now owned by the same company that owns Yahoo).

--
___ _ _____ |*|
/ __| |/ / _ \ |*| Shawn K. Quinn
\__ \ ' < (_) | |*| skquinn@speakeasy.net
|___/_|\_\__\_\ |*| Houston, TX, USA