Hello,

I'm trying to build a fluid design site, as a lot do, and encounter a
problem. Here are the characteristics the site has to respect :

1) No border nor scroll if site is in an iframe or <object>
2) 3 col. layout with the middle one which adjust itself automatically
3) Minimum of width to do header's elements stay organized horizontally
4) That the shortest columns adjust themselves automatically from the
longest one

So, I've solved the first three points, but can't succeed about the last
one, in spite of reading of several possible ways, including factice
container columns and the one using height:100% on div.

Here is a test page of what I have just now :
http://yohannl.tripod.com/3col/index.htm (thanks to ignore the ad
banners at top and bottom which come from this hoster I use for some
tests only)

Do you have some idea about this point #4, without to break anything
about solved points #1, #2 and #3 ?

Yohan N. Leder wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to build a fluid design site, as a lot do, and encounter a
> problem. Here are the characteristics the site has to respect :
>
> 1) No border nor scroll if site is in an iframe or <object>
> 2) 3 col. layout with the middle one which adjust itself automatically
> 3) Minimum of width to do header's elements stay organized horizontally
> 4) That the shortest columns adjust themselves automatically from the
> longest one
>
> So, I've solved the first three points, but can't succeed about the last
> one, in spite of reading of several possible ways, including factice
> container columns and the one using height:100% on div.
>
> Here is a test page of what I have just now :
> http://yohannl.tripod.com/3col/index.htm (thanks to ignore the ad
> banners at top and bottom which come from this hoster I use for some
> tests only)
>
> Do you have some idea about this point #4, without to break anything
> about solved points #1, #2 and #3 ?

This has been discussed over in alt.www.webmaster and probably here
as well. Various examples are on the web.

I don't have a reference to it but there's a few threads around Jan
22 (I think) that goes into some detail on the three approaches to this
Holy Grail of tableless design.

Perhaps someone else will reprise at least one of these.

Jeff

dorayme wrote:
>
> <http://www.bergamotus.ws/samples/3co...th-borders-ful
> l-width.html>

Not wishing to irritate you, but I've noticed a few times that your
links are split and ruined by your "MT-NewsWatcher". Perhaps you have a
setting to "no-wrap"?

For a working mail/news client, the < > delimiters will not wrap the
links within them.

Give Mozilla's Thunderbird a try on your Mac. It works great there as well.

--
Gus

dorayme wrote:
> In article <13u8uoctn6hlqdc@corp.supernews.com>,
> Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps someone else will reprise at least one of these.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> I am something if not someone,

Why would you say that?

will I do?

More than that.
>
> How about:

How about yours? I think it was my favorite as it had simplicity and
directness. Three column is often a bit hard to "code" when you have to
generate the math behind the numbers, making it hard to tweak sizes.
Yours didn't have any of that although #3 example is similar.

I saved all our discussion on this. Now if I only could remember what
I named it.

Jeff

>
> <http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/3col>
>
> <http://benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/csstemplates/3-column.html>
>
> <http://accessat.c-net.us/test/template-3col.html>
>
> <http://www.bergamotus.ws/samples/3co...th-borders-ful
> l-width.html>
>

dorayme wrote:
> In article <h8ednXc3dKg6EHnanZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@golden.net>,
> Gus Richter <gusrichter@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> dorayme wrote:
>>> <http://www.bergamotus.ws/samples/3co...th-borders-ful
>>> l-width.html>
>> Not wishing to irritate you, but I've noticed a few times that your
>> links are split and ruined by your "MT-NewsWatcher". Perhaps you have a
>> setting to "no-wrap"?
>>
>> For a working mail/news client, the < > delimiters will not wrap the
>> links within them.
>>
>> Give Mozilla's Thunderbird a try on your Mac. It works great there as well.
>
> Gus, I don't think you could irritate me. I have a database and
> you have *many* credit points and they are building all the time.
> It worries me when this happens because it means you can be as
> rude as you like and I can't do anything about it till the points
> reach zero. <g>
>
> I despair about the url problem. I think I will ask in a Mac
> group about it. I have tried several things and I think nothing I
> do seems quite satisfactory to everyone. I would be loathe to
> give up MT. I will try any suggestions from anyone.
>
> There are three things I am going to try:
>
> 1. I am going to take some no_bugger_up_url pills
>
> 2. I will use a different wrap preference. I have had wrap on and
> set to 65 and maybe that is the problem. I will try no wrap at
> all.
>
> 3. Or if this has disastrous consequences I will increase the
> wrap to say 72 or more chars.

None of that should be necessary with a decent program. The line
wrapping setting aside, if the URL extends several times the existing
setting and the URL is wrapped in the < > delimiters, then the URL
should be carried on the same line unbroken. That's the reason for the
delimiters. I know people on Mac that love Thunderbird. If you don't
wish to use it for your Mail Client, then try it for News only. Use both
for News until you are convinced. At least switch to one that works right.

--
Gus

Gus Richter wrote:
> dorayme wrote:
>> In article <h8ednXc3dKg6EHnanZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@golden.net>,
>> Gus Richter <gusrichter@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>> dorayme wrote:
>>>> <http://www.bergamotus.ws/samples/3co...th-borders-ful
>>>> l-width.html>
>>> Not wishing to irritate you, but I've noticed a few times that your
>>> links are split and ruined by your "MT-NewsWatcher". Perhaps you have
>>> a setting to "no-wrap"?
>>>
>>> For a working mail/news client, the < > delimiters will not wrap the
>>> links within them.
>>>
>>> Give Mozilla's Thunderbird a try on your Mac. It works great there as
>>> well.
>>
>> Gus, I don't think you could irritate me. I have a database and you
>> have *many* credit points and they are building all the time. It
>> worries me when this happens because it means you can be as rude as
>> you like and I can't do anything about it till the points reach zero. <g>
>>
>> I despair about the url problem. I think I will ask in a Mac group
>> about it. I have tried several things and I think nothing I do seems
>> quite satisfactory to everyone. I would be loathe to give up MT. I
>> will try any suggestions from anyone.
>> There are three things I am going to try:
>>
>> 1. I am going to take some no_bugger_up_url pills
>>
>> 2. I will use a different wrap preference. I have had wrap on and set
>> to 65 and maybe that is the problem. I will try no wrap at all.
>> 3. Or if this has disastrous consequences I will increase the wrap to
>> say 72 or more chars.
>
> None of that should be necessary with a decent program.

Gus, Why don't you post a link with a nice long url so we can see what
it looks like.

Jeff


The line
> wrapping setting aside, if the URL extends several times the existing
> setting and the URL is wrapped in the < > delimiters, then the URL
> should be carried on the same line unbroken. That's the reason for the
> delimiters. I know people on Mac that love Thunderbird. If you don't
> wish to use it for your Mail Client, then try it for News only. Use both
> for News until you are convinced. At least switch to one that works right.
>

Jeff wrote:

> Gus Richter wrote:
>> [link wrap]
>> None of that should be necessary with a decent program.
>
> Gus, Why don't you post a link with a nice long url so we can see
> what it looks like.

Both you and Gus are using the same newsreader: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12

Here's a long one:

<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=new+york+city,+ny&ie=UTF 8&ll=40.719811,-73.996696&spn=0.093544,0.236206&t=k&z=13&iwloc=add r>

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista

Jeff wrote:

> Gus, Why don't you post a link with a nice long url so we can see what
> it looks like.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...string&spell=1

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

dorayme wrote:

> I have changed a preference setting. Do any of these cause problems?:
>
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...city,+ny&ie=UT
> F8&ll=40.719811,-73.996696&spn=0.093544,0.236206&t=k&z=13&iwloc=add r>
>
> or
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...ity,+ny&ie=UTF
> 8&ll=40.719811,-73.996696&spn=0.093544,0.236206&t=k&z=13&iwloc=add r
>
> or
>
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...city,+ny&ie=UT
> F8&ll=40.719811,-73.996696&spn=0.093544,0.236206&t=k&z=13&iwloc=add r />

They all split and wrapped, including my original, and are not usable.
:-(

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista

On 03/22/08 02:42 pm, dorayme wrote:
>
> I have little trouble with most people's urls in my newsreader, so it
> reads others as good as I want. The problem obviously is my urls in my
> own posts, as read by others, right?
>
> I have changed a preference setting. Do any of these cause problems?:
>
MT-NewsWatcher? It looks like you have a "Reflow on column count"
setting, i.e., it arbitrarily wraps at, say, 72 characters regardless of
context. Do you have a WYSIWYG setting?

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

dorayme wrote:
>
> Seriously, Nick, It cannot be tolerated this business of it breaking up
> things unintelligently, like urls. If I cannot find a reasonable
> solution, I will find another newsreader as Gus suggests.

http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/

--
Gus

Jolly Roger wrote:
>
> Shouldn't your news reader ignore line breaks in the middle of
> URLs?

The newsreader shouldn't put line breaks in there in the first place.
That is the problem on the sending end.

--
Berg

Jolly Roger wrote:
> In article <64qsspF2cv00rU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Bergamot <bergamot@visi.com> wrote:
>> Jolly Roger wrote:
>> >
>> > Shouldn't your news reader ignore line breaks in the middle of
>> > URLs?
>>
>> The newsreader shouldn't put line breaks in there in the first place.
>> That is the problem on the sending end.
>
> It doesn't seem to be a problem here. I can click them just fine.

You seem to be the only one.

--
Berg

Bergamot wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>> In article <64qsspF2cv00rU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Bergamot <bergamot@visi.com> wrote:
>>> Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> Shouldn't your news reader ignore line breaks in the middle of
>>>> URLs?
>>> The newsreader shouldn't put line breaks in there in the first place.
>>> That is the problem on the sending end.
>> It doesn't seem to be a problem here. I can click them just fine.
>
> You seem to be the only one.

Because he's a pirate. Look at his header.

--
Gus

In article <doraymeRidThis-C42729.15013622032008@news-
vip.optusnet.com.au>, doraymeRidThis@optusnet.com.au says...
> In article <13u8uoctn6hlqdc@corp.supernews.com>,
> Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps someone else will reprise at least one of these.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> I am something if not someone, will I do?
>
> How about:
>
> <http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/3col>
>
> <http://benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/csstemplates/3-column.html>
>
> <http://accessat.c-net.us/test/template-3col.html>
>
> <http://www.bergamotus.ws/samples/3co...th-borders-ful
> l-width.html>
>
>

Well, I'seen these links and trie with the heigh:100ù on div, but, now,
the left and right col are too long : how to do they just extend to
reach the length of the one which has the longest content ?

Here is my current state : http://yleder.freehostia.com/3cols/

In article <doraymeRidThis-F013AF.11324628032008@news-
vip.optusnet.com.au>, doraymeRidThis@optusnet.com.au says...
> .leftcol, .rightcol {background: #fff; ...
>
> and the problem should disappear.
>

Funny guy Well, more seriously ?

"dorayme" <doraymeRidThis@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:doraymeRidThis-4BC036.14441829032008@news-vip.optusnet.com.au...
> In article <MPG.2256f68ebe356f89899b0@news.tiscali.fr>,
> Yohan N. Leder <ynleder@nspark.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <doraymeRidThis-F013AF.11324628032008@news-
>> vip.optusnet.com.au>, doraymeRidThis@optusnet.com.au says...
>> > .leftcol, .rightcol {background: #fff; ...
>> >
>> > and the problem should disappear.
>> >
>>
>> Funny guy Well, more seriously ?
>
> OK Yohan, I was perhaps a little flippant! But there was a serious point
> in that people can avoid problems by changing how they design pages
> (there being so many *simple* and nice ways to go).
>
> But I nicked down the road to the Catholic church and talked to the
> priest and he told me to go back and knock something up for Yohan N.
> Leder that may be more useful to him. So here is something you might
> find useful, it employs techniques known (though I am not sure whether
> in this form quite):
>
> <http://netweaver.com.au/alt/equalCols/three_cols_fixed_sides.html>
>
> or
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/22h3ep>
>
> I expect it does not work in IE, but I tested in Safari and Firefox. If
> it does not work in IE, please let me know

Works in IE7. Does not work in IE6. Oddly, works in IE5.5.

--
Richard.

dorayme wrote:
>
> <http://netweaver.com.au/alt/equalCols/three_cols_fixed_sides.html>
>
> I expect it does not work in IE, but I tested in Safari and Firefox.

The right column does not stretch all the way down in Seamonkey or
Firefox. It only stretches the length of the viewport, not the content.

http://www.bergamotus.ws/screenshots/netweaver.png

Note the scrollbar

--
Berg