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sources: http://www.ajsquare.com/games/flash_game.php?game=flash

Flash intro is not good option. It is the way to loose your site visitors.
Look at this: "Top SEO mistaker by beginners:"
http://www.webmastermafia.net/Messag...?Thread=189#fm and also this:
http://www.webmastermafia.net/Messag...?Thread=183#fm

"Mafia" <mafia@wmafia.com> wrote:

>Flash intro is not good option. It is the way to loose your site visitors.

The trouble with generalisations, is they are inaccurate. <g>

Young children, primary school age children, in the UK certainly do
LOVE Flash in all its guises.

There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that boring old farts do not
like Flash in any of its guises.

One might even deduce, that possibly the choice as to whether or not
to implement a Flash introduction depends upon the nature of ones
audience.

A site supplying Linux device drivers may not be an ideal platform for
a Flash intro screen - there will de dissenters to this view.

However, a "let's learn maths" site aimed at sighted, able-bodied,
non-vegetarian primary school children probably would benefit from the
use of a Flash intro screen.

Matt


--
The Probert Encyclopaedia
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com

On 27 Feb, 11:27, (Matt Probert) wrote:

> However, a "let's learn maths" site aimed at sighted, able-bodied,
> non-vegetarian primary school children probably would benefit from the
> use of a Flash intro screen.

Why? Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content. I don't
dispute that carnivorous maths students might enjoy Flash-based
_content_, but that's no reason to slug them with a superfluous
trailer first.

Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote:

>On 27 Feb, 11:27, (Matt Probert) wrote:
>
>> However, a "let's learn maths" site aimed at sighted, able-bodied,
>> non-vegetarian primary school children probably would benefit from the
>> use of a Flash intro screen.
>
>Why?


Because:

Young children, primary school age children, in the UK certainly do
LOVE Flash in all its guises.


Anyone else getting a sense of deja vu?

<g>

Matt


--
The Probert Encyclopaedia
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com

Andy Dingley wrote:
>
> Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content.

Why?

Tony <nospam@example.com> wrote:

> Andy Dingley wrote:
>>
>> Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content.
>
> Why?

Because the 733+ say so. They probably also never click on AdSense (they
even block it). Yet Google makes a lot of money with AdSense (OK, they
seem to make less recently).

They also don't have a MySpace page, nor ever use Twitter. If you ask the
733+ if those sites have a use, they will call them useless pieces of
shit. Yet millions of people use those sites every day.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

John Bokma wrote:
> Tony <nospam@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>>> Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content.
>> Why?
>
> Because the 733+ say so.

Any relation to 1337?

> They probably also never click on AdSense (they
> even block it). Yet Google makes a lot of money with AdSense (OK, they
> seem to make less recently).
>
> They also don't have a MySpace page, nor ever use Twitter.

I have a MySpace page. I don't even know what's on it. My wife set it up
for me and keeps it up to date.

Does that mean I'm not 733+? Can I still be 1337?

On 28 Feb, 00:11, Tony <nos...@example.com> wrote:
> Andy Dingley wrote:
>
> > Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content.
>
> Why?

Because you're making the user sit through an intro when they could be
sitting through your content instead.

Because this isn't TV, and certainly not a long movie. We don't
consume the web in a serial manner as we used to with broadcast media,
we pick and choose what we want, and exactly how much of what we want.
In particular, feeding the same intro to repeat visitors is especially
annoying. They might tolerate this once a week on a TV series, but not
every time they refresh a page (and it's hard to reliably avoid that).

It's an impatient audience out there these days! They don't want to
sit through an intro, and if you force then to do so, you're likely to
find them going somewhere else altogether.

Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 28 Feb, 00:11, Tony <nos...@example.com> wrote:
>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>>
>>> Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content.
>> Why?
>
> Because you're making the user sit through an intro when they could be
> sitting through your content instead.

If the target market LIKES the intro, then how is it bad?

> Because this isn't TV, and certainly not a long movie. We don't
> consume the web in a serial manner as we used to with broadcast media,
> we pick and choose what we want, and exactly how much of what we want.

Who is "We"? A specific group of expert users like this group? All users
in general? A specific target audience?

> In particular, feeding the same intro to repeat visitors is especially
> annoying. They might tolerate this once a week on a TV series, but not
> every time they refresh a page (and it's hard to reliably avoid that).

You state a position: "feeding the same intro to repeat visitors is
especially annoying.". While I would tend to agree with you, do you have
any specific evidence to back up this claim? And more particularly, can
you say that claim is true for all target demographics?

> It's an impatient audience out there these days! They don't want to
> sit through an intro, and if you force then to do so, you're likely to
> find them going somewhere else altogether.

Also, your original statement didn't say anything about forced Flash
intros. Many of them have a "skip" link. And some sites even have ways
to bypass them.

You made a broad statement: "Flash intros are bad, no matter what the
content". Fair enough - you feel that Flash intros are bad. But are they
ALWAYS bad? I think it's rather small-minded and quite limiting to say
"yes" to that - what's good for one target audience may or may not be
good for others. That's something I often see missing from some of the
discussions here.

Tony <nospam@example.com> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:

[..]

>> Because the 733+ say so.
>
> Any relation to 1337?

[..]

> Does that mean I'm not 733+? Can I still be 1337?

No, and no, obviously.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote:

> On 28 Feb, 00:11, Tony <nos...@example.com> wrote:
>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>>
>> > Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because you're making the user sit through an intro when they could be
> sitting through your content instead.

Any reason why an intro can't be considered content?

> Because this isn't TV, and certainly not a long movie.

Aha, that explains the huge failure of YouTube.

> We don't
> consume the web in a serial manner as we used to with broadcast media,
> we pick and choose what we want, and exactly how much of what we want.
> In particular, feeding the same intro to repeat visitors is especially
> annoying.

You're assuming that intros are always the same. This does happens, but is
not always the case (e.g. band sites, in my experience, have often intros
that change, even when you refresh the page).

> They might tolerate this once a week on a TV series, but not
> every time they refresh a page (and it's hard to reliably avoid that).
>
> It's an impatient audience out there these days! They don't want to
> sit through an intro, and if you force then to do so, you're likely to
> find them going somewhere else altogether.

You're talking about how *you* surf. I know plenty of people who do enjoy
intros. So who's wrong? (rhetorical).

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

Tony wrote:
> Andy Dingley wrote:
>> On 28 Feb, 00:11, Tony <nos...@example.com> wrote:
>>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Flash intros are bad, no matter what the content.
>>> Why?
>>
>> Because you're making the user sit through an intro when they could be
>> sitting through your content instead.
>
> If the target market LIKES the intro, then how is it bad?
>
>> Because this isn't TV, and certainly not a long movie. We don't
>> consume the web in a serial manner as we used to with broadcast media,
>> we pick and choose what we want, and exactly how much of what we want.
>
> Who is "We"? A specific group of expert users like this group? All users
> in general? A specific target audience?
>

It gets very boring to watch the same flash intro time after time.
Soon, people stop watching - because they stop visiting the site.

>> In particular, feeding the same intro to repeat visitors is especially
>> annoying. They might tolerate this once a week on a TV series, but not
>> every time they refresh a page (and it's hard to reliably avoid that).
>
> You state a position: "feeding the same intro to repeat visitors is
> especially annoying.". While I would tend to agree with you, do you have
> any specific evidence to back up this claim? And more particularly, can
> you say that claim is true for all target demographics?
>

How many times do you watch reruns of the same TV shows?

>> It's an impatient audience out there these days! They don't want to
>> sit through an intro, and if you force then to do so, you're likely to
>> find them going somewhere else altogether.
>
> Also, your original statement didn't say anything about forced Flash
> intros. Many of them have a "skip" link. And some sites even have ways
> to bypass them.
>

Some do.

> You made a broad statement: "Flash intros are bad, no matter what the
> content". Fair enough - you feel that Flash intros are bad. But are they
> ALWAYS bad? I think it's rather small-minded and quite limiting to say
> "yes" to that - what's good for one target audience may or may not be
> good for others. That's something I often see missing from some of the
> discussions here.
>

Exactly. They are ALWAYS bad. And I think it's rather small-minded and
quite limiting to force flash intros on users.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
: It gets very boring to watch the same flash intro time after time.
: Soon, people stop watching - because they stop visiting the site.


I doubt they would stop visiting the site but they might skip the flash
intro.
A skip is always a good idea or if they are thinking about it they would
just bookmark the page that comes after the flash intro like I do. =)

Heidi

John Bokma wrote:
: Aha, that explains the huge failure of YouTube.

LOL. I know I love YouTube.
However if YouTube was nothing but a bunch of flash intros I know I wouldn't
love it quite so much. =)

Hmm maybe someone should try to do that so I don't visit it so often every
single day. hee hee.

Heidi

"Heidi" <blackcat2@gmail.com> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
> : Aha, that explains the huge failure of YouTube.
>
> LOL. I know I love YouTube.
> However if YouTube was nothing but a bunch of flash intros I know I
> wouldn't love it quite so much. =)
>
> Hmm maybe someone should try to do that so I don't visit it so often
> every single day. hee hee.

:-D. Not every day, but I visit it often. Especially the little one loves
the cats.

A common mistake with "techies" I often read is that because they mostly
use the web to gather information, they think that each and every web page
has to be written to speed read without a single distraction (one might
call it the Jakob Nielsen Syndrome). They forget that there are (IMO)
plenty of people (maybe even the majority) who consider "the Internet"
just a replacement for "the tube".

I have no idea what attracts people to stuff like "Big Brother" (to me
it's like watching paint dry), but the popularity of stuff like that
suggests (IMO) that there are quite some people who don't suffer from the
constant need for new and better information.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

John Bokma wrote:
: :-D. Not every day, but I visit it often. Especially the little one
: loves the cats.

Oy I visit several times each day and I have two accounts now LOL.
Yeah I love the cats too. I wonder if you have seen my cat video?
I also have a large playlist of cat videos. =)
:
: A common mistake with "techies" I often read is that because they
: mostly use the web to gather information, they think that each and every
web
: page has to be written to speed read without a single distraction (one
: might call it the Jakob Nielsen Syndrome). They forget that there are
(IMO)
: plenty of people (maybe even the majority) who consider "the Internet"
: just a replacement for "the tube".

Well I don't consider it a replacement but I have to admit I watch much less
tv now. =)

: I have no idea what attracts people to stuff like "Big Brother" (to me
: it's like watching paint dry), but the popularity of stuff like that
: suggests (IMO) that there are quite some people who don't suffer from
: the constant need for new and better information.

Information is good but so is mindless entertainment. =) Just need to
keep them in proper quantities. LOL.

Heidi

John Bokma wrote:

> A common mistake with "techies" I often read is that because they mostly
> use the web to gather information, they think that each and every web page
> has to be written to speed read without a single distraction...

That's me!

> .. there are plenty of people who consider "the Internet"
> just a replacement for "the tube".

It actually took me a while to figure that out, because to me,
the internet is this incredible worldwide library. I feel like
since the popularization of the internet that I have increased
my knowledge of the world by 3.

It's a shame most people use the internet to just play. Oh, well,
_I'm_ going to just keep learning so I don't fall behind.

Gary Peek <mylastname@mycompanyname.com> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> A common mistake with "techies" I often read is that because they
>> mostly use the web to gather information, they think that each and
>> every web page has to be written to speed read without a single
>> distraction...
>
> That's me!
>
>> .. there are plenty of people who consider "the Internet"
>> just a replacement for "the tube".
>
> It actually took me a while to figure that out, because to me,
> the internet is this incredible worldwide library. I feel like
> since the popularization of the internet that I have increased
> my knowledge of the world by 3.

Yes, before I had access to the Internet I used to watch documentaries if
the pace was not too slow. But that didn't stop me from watching other
stuff that might be considered a waste of time.

> It's a shame most people use the internet to just play.

You can learn while playing ;-)

> Oh, well,
> _I'm_ going to just keep learning so I don't fall behind.

I use Internet both ways: mostly to learn though.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

Blinky the Shark <no.spam@box.invalid> wrote:

> One's not going to learn much cruising dating pages trying to get laid
> and downloading music. And alas, I think those things and email are
> most of what the majority of users are limited to. Okay, add porn to
> that.

Still, a lot to learn from :-).

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

John Bokma wrote:

> Gary Peek <mylastname@mycompanyname.com> wrote:
>
>> John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> A common mistake with "techies" I often read is that because they
>>> mostly use the web to gather information, they think that each and
>>> every web page has to be written to speed read without a single
>>> distraction...
>>
>> That's me!
>>
>>> .. there are plenty of people who consider "the Internet"
>>> just a replacement for "the tube".
>>
>> It actually took me a while to figure that out, because to me,
>> the internet is this incredible worldwide library. I feel like
>> since the popularization of the internet that I have increased
>> my knowledge of the world by 3.
>
> Yes, before I had access to the Internet I used to watch documentaries if
> the pace was not too slow. But that didn't stop me from watching other
> stuff that might be considered a waste of time.
>
>> It's a shame most people use the internet to just play.
>
> You can learn while playing ;-)

One's not going to learn much cruising dating pages trying to get laid and
downloading music. And alas, I think those things and email are most of
what the majority of users are limited to. Okay, add porn to that.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

John Bokma wrote:

> Still, a lot to learn from :-).

Cleft chin, or just a zit?


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

John Bokma wrote:

> They forget that there are (IMO) plenty of people (maybe even the
> majority) who consider "the Internet" just a replacement for "the tube".

I did that once. I wanted to get to Morden via Bank on the Northern Line,
so I select an operating system and hardware combination, but just ended
up waiting around on the platform.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 30 days, 22:07.]

Bottled Water
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/02/18/bottled-water/

Toby A Inkster <usenet200801@tobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> They forget that there are (IMO) plenty of people (maybe even the
>> majority) who consider "the Internet" just a replacement for "the
>> tube".
>
> I did that once. I wanted to get to Morden via Bank on the Northern
> Line, so I select an operating system and hardware combination, but
> just ended up waiting around on the platform.

Did you install "Microsoft Public Transport 0.9"?

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

Toby A Inkster <usenet200801@tobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:

>John Bokma wrote:
>
>> They forget that there are (IMO) plenty of people (maybe even the
>> majority) who consider "the Internet" just a replacement for "the tube".
>
>I did that once. I wanted to get to Morden via Bank on the Northern Line,
>so I select an operating system and hardware combination, but just ended
>up waiting around on the platform.
>

You should have asked for advice in alt.2600 group. They're more
familiar with the underground......


<gets coat>

Matt

--
The Probert Encyclopaedia
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com