Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
> John Dalberg wrote:
>
> > Tony <nospam@example.com> wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > > You're saying you want to register 10 domains PER DAY. There is no
> > > possible way you can be building websites for that many, so the only
> > > conclusion I'm left to reach is that you're either squatting
> > > domains or building automated link farms - neither of which is a
> > > legitimate business use.
> > >
> > > You want to automate the registration process. With GoDaddy, at
> > > least, the longest part of the process is FINDING the domains - you
> > > can spend all kinds of time looking for good domains, put them all
> > > into the same checkout process, and then go through checkout once.
> > > You're saying that the 2 minutes it takes to go through the
> > > checkout process is too much work?
> > >
> > > "Like I said in my original post, I am paying for the names." - So
> > > you're paying. That means nothing.
> > >
> > > "There's no bad intent." - squatting or link farms is bad intent. I
> > > find it extremely difficult to conceive of any legitimate
> > > circumstance that would warrant the registration of 10 domain names
> > > PER DAY. That's $100 per day in expenses. How many domains are you
> > > planning on registering? What are you going to do with all these
> > > domains?
> > >
> > > You asked what is suspicious? Well, the fact that you want
> > > automated and cheap is suspicious. There are reasons that the
> > > registrars want to be sure that REAL PEOPLE are registering
> > > domains. People who want to bypass those constraints rarely have
> > > legitimate, honest reasons for doing so.
> >
> > Who the hell are you to decide I don't need 10 domain names per day
> > and that paying for them means nothing? Is there a limit set by any
> > organization? No there aren't. If I am paying for them, I have the
> > right to pay for one a year or 10 a day.
>
> Of course you have the right to register 10 domain names a day. If you
> can afford it, you could even register 100 domain names a day. The
> question remains, why would you need to?

Web hosting.

>
> > There's nothing wrong for using a script to automate a process as
> > long as I am paying for them. eBay has an api. Amazon has an api and
> > thousands of online services provide.
>
> You're basically comparing apples and oranges here; just being an
> online retailer of any kind doesn't require you to provide an API. eBay
> has an API for their sellers, or for the development of seller tools.
> Amazon has an API for their sellers (affiliates) and their existing
> customers (storage/hosting).

I didn't say it's required. APIs are an aid. Maybe I didn't give good
examples. How about yelp.com and Google maps? These are not retailers.

>
> Similarily, registrars such as GoDaddy has an API for some of their
> resellers via their WildWestDomains subsidiary. Their API reseller plan
> costs $249 per year, but considering you'll already be registering 10
> domains a day, that would be a minor cost.
>
> Other registrars have similar APIs, but again, only availble for their
> resellers.

I am not a reseller. Why do you have to be a reseller to be able to use
APIs?

>
> > You're a turd to take the stance of guilty until proven innocent and
> > telling me the longest part is finding a name as if I am registering
> > any name or I don't know a thing about the process. It's none of your
> > business what I plan to do with the names. Take a hike.
>
> As others have pointed out, the fact that you're planning on ordering
> that many domain names PER DAY, is suspicious. The frequently observed
> uses for that many domain names are considered illegitimate, and your
> refusal to disclose any details (or even a hint) only makes you seem
> more suspicious.

It's for web hosting.


John Dalberg

John Dalberg wrote:

> Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
> > John Dalberg wrote:
> >
> > > Tony <nospam@example.com> wrote:
> > > > [snip]
> > > > You're saying you want to register 10 domains PER DAY. There is
> > > > no possible way you can be building websites for that many, so
> > > > the only conclusion I'm left to reach is that you're either
> > > > squatting domains or building automated link farms - neither of
> > > > which is a legitimate business use.
> > > >
> > > > You want to automate the registration process. With GoDaddy, at
> > > > least, the longest part of the process is FINDING the domains -
> > > > you can spend all kinds of time looking for good domains, put
> > > > them all into the same checkout process, and then go through
> > > > checkout once. You're saying that the 2 minutes it takes to go
> > > > through the checkout process is too much work?
> > > >
> > > > "Like I said in my original post, I am paying for the names." -
> > > > So you're paying. That means nothing.
> > > >
> > > > "There's no bad intent." - squatting or link farms is bad
> > > > intent. I find it extremely difficult to conceive of any
> > > > legitimate circumstance that would warrant the registration of
> > > > 10 domain names PER DAY. That's $100 per day in expenses. How
> > > > many domains are you planning on registering? What are you
> > > > going to do with all these domains?
> > > >
> > > > You asked what is suspicious? Well, the fact that you want
> > > > automated and cheap is suspicious. There are reasons that the
> > > > registrars want to be sure that REAL PEOPLE are registering
> > > > domains. People who want to bypass those constraints rarely have
> > > > legitimate, honest reasons for doing so.
> > >
> > > Who the hell are you to decide I don't need 10 domain names per
> > > day and that paying for them means nothing? Is there a limit set
> > > by any organization? No there aren't. If I am paying for them, I
> > > have the right to pay for one a year or 10 a day.
> >
> > Of course you have the right to register 10 domain names a day. If
> > you can afford it, you could even register 100 domain names a day.
> > The question remains, why would you need to?
>
> Web hosting.
>
> >
> > > There's nothing wrong for using a script to automate a process as
> > > long as I am paying for them. eBay has an api. Amazon has an api
> > > and thousands of online services provide.
> >
> > You're basically comparing apples and oranges here; just being an
> > online retailer of any kind doesn't require you to provide an API.
> > eBay has an API for their sellers, or for the development of seller
> > tools. Amazon has an API for their sellers (affiliates) and their
> > existing customers (storage/hosting).
>
> I didn't say it's required. APIs are an aid. Maybe I didn't give good
> examples. How about yelp.com and Google maps? These are not retailers.
>
> >
> > Similarily, registrars such as GoDaddy has an API for some of their
> > resellers via their WildWestDomains subsidiary. Their API reseller
> > plan costs $249 per year, but considering you'll already be
> > registering 10 domains a day, that would be a minor cost.
> >
> > Other registrars have similar APIs, but again, only availble for
> > their resellers.
>
> I am not a reseller. Why do you have to be a reseller to be able to
> use APIs?
>
> >
> > > You're a turd to take the stance of guilty until proven innocent
> > > and telling me the longest part is finding a name as if I am
> > > registering any name or I don't know a thing about the process.
> > > It's none of your business what I plan to do with the names. Take
> > > a hike.
> >
> > As others have pointed out, the fact that you're planning on
> > ordering that many domain names PER DAY, is suspicious. The
> > frequently observed uses for that many domain names are considered
> > illegitimate, and your refusal to disclose any details (or even a
> > hint) only makes you seem more suspicious.
>
> It's for web hosting.

Fair enough, although I don't see the point.

Anywho, the answer is "yes" if you want to automate domain
registrations and/or use an API for this, you should become a domain
reseller.

Yes, eBay, Amazon and Goggle Maps do provide an API for free, but they
still require you to register yourself as a developer.

Although you keep on saying you don't want to become a reseller,
there's no big rule that you have to use the API towards a public
service. AFAIK, you can just as well use the reseller API in an
internal shop, ie. a shop where you're the only "customer" who has
access and/or remake the order process as you see fit. Depending on
your programming skills, you get a lot of freedom there.

--
Kim André Akerø
- kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com
(remove NOSPAM to contact me directly)

On 2008-02-18, John Dalberg <nospam@nospam.sss> replied to me,

> So can someone of these people who suggested I have a sleezy plan explain
> to me why they think a spammer needs a domain name and also explain why
> they think the method of registering a domain name makes a big difference?

You've already been told why.



--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

On 2008-02-18, John Dalberg <nospam@nospam.sss> wrote:

>> > I don't have a sleezy plan and I said so and if people here are going
>> > to ask for my life history and ask .. why.. when.. how many.. where..I
>> > am not going to spend time explaining anything. I will just ask the
>> > reigstrars themselves.
>>
>> No one wants, or gives a flying fuck about, your life history. I'm sorry
>> you didn't get the answer you wanted. Have a nice life.
>
> Then stop asking many mal-intention questions on why, my intentions, how
> many..

Hey, I've only been making a point. It's the same point others have made.



--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

On 2008-02-18, John Dalberg <nospam@nospam.sss> wrote:

> Who said registrars want real people to register domain names? Otherwise
> you would see captchas in their order forms being used and I haven't seen
> any.

You DO see captchas, you flaming idiot. Try registering a domain at GoDaddy's
site, or use one of their resellers - they all use the same web-based backend.

Do ALL registrars use them? No. But between Godaddy's retail division and
their resellers, NOT including any other registrars, that's an awful lot of
domains for which you must answer a captcha to complete the registration.



--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
> John Dalberg wrote:
>
> > Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
> > > John Dalberg wrote:
> > >
> > > > Tony <nospam@example.com> wrote:
> > > > > [snip]
> > > > > You're saying you want to register 10 domains PER DAY. There is
> > > > > no possible way you can be building websites for that many, so
> > > > > the only conclusion I'm left to reach is that you're either
> > > > > squatting domains or building automated link farms - neither of
> > > > > which is a legitimate business use.
> > > > >
> > > > > You want to automate the registration process. With GoDaddy, at
> > > > > least, the longest part of the process is FINDING the domains -
> > > > > you can spend all kinds of time looking for good domains, put
> > > > > them all into the same checkout process, and then go through
> > > > > checkout once. You're saying that the 2 minutes it takes to go
> > > > > through the checkout process is too much work?
> > > > >
> > > > > "Like I said in my original post, I am paying for the names." -
> > > > > So you're paying. That means nothing.
> > > > >
> > > > > "There's no bad intent." - squatting or link farms is bad
> > > > > intent. I find it extremely difficult to conceive of any
> > > > > legitimate circumstance that would warrant the registration of
> > > > > 10 domain names PER DAY. That's $100 per day in expenses. How
> > > > > many domains are you planning on registering? What are you
> > > > > going to do with all these domains?
> > > > >
> > > > > You asked what is suspicious? Well, the fact that you want
> > > > > automated and cheap is suspicious. There are reasons that the
> > > > > registrars want to be sure that REAL PEOPLE are registering
> > > > > domains. People who want to bypass those constraints rarely have
> > > > > legitimate, honest reasons for doing so.
> > > >
> > > > Who the hell are you to decide I don't need 10 domain names per
> > > > day and that paying for them means nothing? Is there a limit set
> > > > by any organization? No there aren't. If I am paying for them, I
> > > > have the right to pay for one a year or 10 a day.
> > >
> > > Of course you have the right to register 10 domain names a day. If
> > > you can afford it, you could even register 100 domain names a day.
> > > The question remains, why would you need to?
> >
> > Web hosting.
> >
> > >
> > > > There's nothing wrong for using a script to automate a process as
> > > > long as I am paying for them. eBay has an api. Amazon has an api
> > > > and thousands of online services provide.
> > >
> > > You're basically comparing apples and oranges here; just being an
> > > online retailer of any kind doesn't require you to provide an API.
> > > eBay has an API for their sellers, or for the development of seller
> > > tools. Amazon has an API for their sellers (affiliates) and their
> > > existing customers (storage/hosting).
> >
> > I didn't say it's required. APIs are an aid. Maybe I didn't give good
> > examples. How about yelp.com and Google maps? These are not retailers.
> >
> > >
> > > Similarily, registrars such as GoDaddy has an API for some of their
> > > resellers via their WildWestDomains subsidiary. Their API reseller
> > > plan costs $249 per year, but considering you'll already be
> > > registering 10 domains a day, that would be a minor cost.
> > >
> > > Other registrars have similar APIs, but again, only availble for
> > > their resellers.
> >
> > I am not a reseller. Why do you have to be a reseller to be able to
> > use APIs?
> >
> > >
> > > > You're a turd to take the stance of guilty until proven innocent
> > > > and telling me the longest part is finding a name as if I am
> > > > registering any name or I don't know a thing about the process.
> > > > It's none of your business what I plan to do with the names. Take
> > > > a hike.
> > >
> > > As others have pointed out, the fact that you're planning on
> > > ordering that many domain names PER DAY, is suspicious. The
> > > frequently observed uses for that many domain names are considered
> > > illegitimate, and your refusal to disclose any details (or even a
> > > hint) only makes you seem more suspicious.
> >
> > It's for web hosting.
>
> Fair enough, although I don't see the point.
>
> Anywho, the answer is "yes" if you want to automate domain
> registrations and/or use an API for this, you should become a domain
> reseller.
>
> Yes, eBay, Amazon and Goggle Maps do provide an API for free, but they
> still require you to register yourself as a developer.
>
> Although you keep on saying you don't want to become a reseller,
> there's no big rule that you have to use the API towards a public
> service. AFAIK, you can just as well use the reseller API in an
> internal shop, ie. a shop where you're the only "customer" who has
> access and/or remake the order process as you see fit. Depending on
> your programming skills, you get a lot of freedom there.

The point is to register the domain names for others. Some people know
zelch about why and how to do it.

I don't want to be a reseller. I am not reselling domain names. This means
one has to pay hundreds of dollars for absolutely no profit. My intention
is not to use the process to make a profit. I am just ing others.

I understand how API's work. I don't mind passing a username and password.
That's not a problem.

John Dalberg

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
> On 2008-02-18, John Dalberg <nospam@nospam.sss> wrote:
>
> > Who said registrars want real people to register domain names?
> > Otherwise you would see captchas in their order forms being used and I
> > haven't seen any.
>
> You DO see captchas, you flaming idiot. Try registering a domain at
> GoDaddy's site, or use one of their resellers - they all use the same
> web-based backend.
>
> Do ALL registrars use them? No. But between Godaddy's retail division and
> their resellers, NOT including any other registrars, that's an awful lot
> of domains for which you must answer a captcha to complete the
> registration.

There are no captchas. I tried it myself up to the credit card order page.
I don't care about their reseller page. Most people don't. I used 1and1.com
and 000domains.com before. I don't remember seeing any. Why do registrars
need to use captchas if bulk registration can easily enable a spammer to
register hundreds of them in one shot? You make no sense.

I have explained to idiots like you have unverifiable suspicions that one
doesn't need to use domain names to spam. I can spam the crap out of your
mailbox without using any domain names and even if I do need any, I can
simply register a few domain names manually in a matter of minutes or I can
register hundreds of them using any bulk registrar. Why on earth do you
think a scipt is the single entry to do evil.

Maybe you're confused with using scripts to send spam or using scripts to
open multiple accounts at free webmails. Are you? You NEVER explained what
all this suspicions is based on. Just the matter of mentioning 'script',
you automatically become shitless suspicious. I also already mentioned why
I wanted to use a script. You keep tackling this subject from a mindless
side.

John Dalberg

On 2008-02-19, John Dalberg <nospam@nospam.sss> wrote:

> There are no captchas. I tried it myself up to the credit card order page.

Well, being a GoDaddy retail customer now, and having been a reseller in
the past, I can tell you there are. Call me a liar if you wish.


> I have explained to idiots like you have unverifiable suspicions that one
> doesn't need to use domain names to spam. I can spam the crap out of your
> mailbox without using any domain names and even if I do need any, I can
> simply register a few domain names manually in a matter of minutes or I can
> register hundreds of them using any bulk registrar. Why on earth do you
> think a scipt is the single entry to do evil.

I don't. Thanks for playing.


--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

John Dalberg wrote:
>
> I have explained to idiots like you

Yeah, the regulars in this group are the idiots. Got it.

> have unverifiable suspicions that one
> doesn't need to use domain names to spam.

What about squatting or link farming? I notice you STILL haven't
addressed that. You seem pretty stuck on spam.

I'm curious as to why you're still trying to argue it. Are you trying to
convince US? (If so, you are definitely going about it in the wrong
way). Or are you trying to convince yourself?

> You NEVER explained what
> all this suspicions is based on. Just the matter of mentioning 'script',
> you automatically become shitless suspicious.

One last time: You want to automate an already simple process to
register an abnormally large number of domain names. For some reason,
you seem to equate "suspicious" with "you're a freakin' scammer".

I've been the subject of inaccurate suspicions before. Rather than
hollering about it and getting defensive, I have responded with a clear
explanation of my intentions.

You, however, chose to respond angrily - frankly, rather childishly. And
you're apparently not even paying attention to who is who. Let's get
this straight - *I* am the one who mentioned that your questions, taken
together, were suspicious. I have stated my reasons. Your initial
response was to call me a "turd".

And then you wonder why you get the reaction you do. Amazing.

> I also already mentioned why
> I wanted to use a script.

I seem to have missed that. What was the reason again?

> You keep tackling this subject from a mindless
> side.

One side is seeming mindless. I'll leave it to impartial observers to
conclude which.

John Dalberg wrote:

> Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
> >
> > [snip, big time]
>
> The point is to register the domain names for others. Some people know
> zelch about why and how to do it.

That's a completely legitimate reason, as I see it, and even a
good-natured one. (If you made that point earlier on, though, we
wouldn't have had this long list of accusations.)

> I don't want to be a reseller. I am not reselling domain names. This
> means one has to pay hundreds of dollars for absolutely no profit. My
> intention is not to use the process to make a profit. I am just
> ing others.
>
> I understand how API's work. I don't mind passing a username and
> password. That's not a problem.

I just recalled another reseller service that has way lower fees (ie.
none - just a deposit which is deducted from when you sell domains):
http://www.irrp.net/

You pay a certain price per domain per year, then you can charge your
customers the price you want (even the same price you pay for it, since
you obviously don't want to make a profit).

--
Kim André Akerø
- kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com
(remove NOSPAM to contact me directly)

Tony <nospam@example.com> wrote:
> John Dalberg wrote:
> >
> > I have explained to idiots like you
>
> Yeah, the regulars in this group are the idiots. Got it.
>
> > have unverifiable suspicions that one
> > doesn't need to use domain names to spam.
>
> What about squatting or link farming? I notice you STILL haven't
> addressed that. You seem pretty stuck on spam.

What's your question exactly about link farming? If you explain your point
in a better way, I can answer you.

>
> I'm curious as to why you're still trying to argue it. Are you trying to
> convince US? (If so, you are definitely going about it in the wrong
> way). Or are you trying to convince yourself?
>
> > You NEVER explained what
> > all this suspicions is based on. Just the matter of mentioning
> > 'script', you automatically become shitless suspicious.
>
> One last time: You want to automate an already simple process to
> register an abnormally large number of domain names. For some reason,
> you seem to equate "suspicious" with "you're a freakin' scammer".

Up to 10 domain names a day is not abnormally large number of domain names.
There are people who register hundreds every day. What is simple about a
manual process that's repeated several times a day? You need to explain
what you're suspicious about instead of just telling me "I am suspicious".


> I've been the subject of inaccurate suspicions before. Rather than
> hollering about it and getting defensive, I have responded with a clear
> explanation of my intentions.

Because you keep bringing up points.. spam.. then link farms as if you have
the answer and you're holding off till you're convinced my intentions are
going to satisfy you. You obviously don't have the answer. You're just
wasting my time but I'll take the time to convince you that you ideas have
no substance.

If you think I need a script to create link farms, your idea holds no
water. In this case, I can bulk register (a legit feature offered by some
registrars) hundreds of domain names in one single swoop.

I am asking you one more time.. What are your suspicious of me using a
script?

> I seem to have missed that. What was the reason again?

A script is used to automate a manual process. I thought that's clear to
most people. If you're going to ask why I don't do it manually. It's
because it's a boring repetitive process. If I can save time to do
anything, why shouldn't I? Why is this hard for folks like you to
understand? If you're going to say I will use it to spam, I will say I
don't need a domain name to spam. If you're going to say "Yes you do", I
will say you're not savvy and I will say I can then just register names
manually and spam or bulk register and spam. If you're going to say I am
going to use the script to create link farms, I will say I can bulk
register hundreds manually. Copy and paste the list of names in the textbox
at the registrar and enter some info and boom.. I have them.

This is like my third time I am explaining this. In the end, I am trying
to explain something to you just for the same to your mind because in
the end you don't even have the answer to my question. If you still don't
understand what I am saying then read all my posts slowly and several times
till you get it.

John Dalberg

Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
> John Dalberg wrote:
>
> > Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > [snip, big time]
> >
> > The point is to register the domain names for others. Some people know
> > zelch about why and how to do it.
>
> That's a completely legitimate reason, as I see it, and even a
> good-natured one. (If you made that point earlier on, though, we
> wouldn't have had this long list of accusations.)

Well sometimes someone doesn't need to divulge more information than they
need to and that should be respected. If someone is suspicious that's fine
but there's no need to get hostile about it.
>
> > I don't want to be a reseller. I am not reselling domain names. This
> > means one has to pay hundreds of dollars for absolutely no profit. My
> > intention is not to use the process to make a profit. I am just
> > ing others.
> >
> > I understand how API's work. I don't mind passing a username and
> > password. That's not a problem.
>
> I just recalled another reseller service that has way lower fees (ie.
> none - just a deposit which is deducted from when you sell domains):
> http://www.irrp.net/
>
> You pay a certain price per domain per year, then you can charge your
> customers the price you want (even the same price you pay for it, since
> you obviously don't want to make a profit).

Thanks. I think I'll just write a script to submit the registration form,
scrape
the next page and repeat. It worked for me for other sites.

John Dalberg

John Dalberg wrote:
<...>
We're talking in circles.

Tony wrote:

> John Dalberg wrote:
> <...>
> We're talking in circles.

Because every time you mention link farming or squatting, he ignores that
and answers with a denial that he's a spammer, you mean?


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

On 19 Feb 2008 16:07:48 GMT, nospam@nospam.sss (John Dalberg) wrote:

>Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
>> John Dalberg wrote:
>>
>> > Kim_André_Akerø <kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > [snip, big time]
>> >
>> > The point is to register the domain names for others. Some people know
>> > zelch about why and how to do it.
>>
>> That's a completely legitimate reason, as I see it, and even a
>> good-natured one. (If you made that point earlier on, though, we
>> wouldn't have had this long list of accusations.)
>
>Well sometimes someone doesn't need to divulge more information than they
>need to and that should be respected. If someone is suspicious that's fine
>but there's no need to get hostile about it.

Sure there is. You're doing what spammers do. You're doing what
squatters do. Either way you're doing what the slime of the internet
does. Now, that doesn't mean you can't DO it, you just shouldn't
expect people not to SAY anything about it.

--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
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How you look depends on where you go.
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Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
Official .sig, Accept no substitutes. | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ 0 1 7 2 3 / Ý³Þ 3 7 4 9 3 0 Û³
Black Helicopter Repair Services, Ltd.| Official Proof of Purchase
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