I have a lot of clients that just want a 2- or 3-page online brochure,
and to be quite frank, I end up spending more time on these sites than
on the larger ones! More than I could possibly charge for, actually,
which becomes a problem. So, I'm thinking about encouraging those
clients to consider one of the free template programs that come free
with cPanel's Fantastico.

If you're not familiar with Fantastico, these template programs
include Drupal, Joomla, WordPress, Geeklog, Mambo Open Source, PHP-
Nuke, phpWCMS, phpWebSite, Post-Nuke, Siteframe, TYPO3, and Xoops.

I have never used a template program in my life, so I really have no
idea how good these programs are, or how easy to use they might be. So
here's my question:

If you were going to pre-install just one of these programs so that
the computer-illiterate client could set up their own online brochure
website through a content management system (no FTP, and as user-
friendly as possible), which one would you choose?

Based on screenshots alone, I'm thinking of Drupal. Does anyone have
any experience on this one? If so, is it a better choice than the
others for the purposes that I've described?

TIA,

Jason

On Feb 12, 3:31pm, Jason Carlton <jwcarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a lot of clients that just want a 2- or 3-page online brochure,
> and to be quite frank, I end up spending more time on these sites than
> on the larger ones! More than I could possibly charge for, actually,
> which becomes a problem.
Write better contracts.
You need to have a good plan of what the site will contain from the
start. You should also have a launch date, for when you expect the
site to be completed.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

> Write better contracts.
> You need to have a good plan of what the site will contain from the
> start. You should also have a launch date, for when you expect the
> site to be completed.

While I appreciate the advice, Chad, I'm not entirely sure how your
advice applies to my question.

My contracts are fine, and completion dates aren't really a problem;
the problem is that I have more work than I can handle, but not enough
to justify hiring an employee. So I'm trying to find a way to increase
my monthly residuals, and at the same time cut down on the workload.

I figure that setting up a simple system that would allow the smaller
clients to do things for themselves would allow me to spend more time
on writing programs (my bread and butter), and I'll still get the
hosting contract each month.

- J

Jason Carlton wrote:
>> Write better contracts.
>> You need to have a good plan of what the site will contain from the
>> start. You should also have a launch date, for when you expect the
>> site to be completed.
>
> While I appreciate the advice, Chad, I'm not entirely sure how your
> advice applies to my question.
>
> My contracts are fine, and completion dates aren't really a problem;
> the problem is that I have more work than I can handle, but not enough
> to justify hiring an employee. So I'm trying to find a way to increase
> my monthly residuals, and at the same time cut down on the workload.
>
> I figure that setting up a simple system that would allow the smaller
> clients to do things for themselves would allow me to spend more time
> on writing programs (my bread and butter), and I'll still get the
> hosting contract each month.
>
> - J
>

I agree with Chad. If the small jobs aren't paying the same hourly
rate, your contract needs some work.

You need to analyze why you're not getting the same hourly rate from the
small ones as you do the larger ones, and adjust accordingly.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Feb 13, 5:41am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Jason Carlton wrote:
> >> Write better contracts.
> >> You need to have a good plan of what the site will contain from the
> >> start. You should also have a launch date, for when you expect the
> >> site to be completed.
>
> > While I appreciate the advice, Chad, I'm not entirely sure how your
> > advice applies to my question.
>
> > My contracts are fine, and completion dates aren't really a problem;
> > the problem is that I have more work than I can handle, but not enough
> > to justify hiring an employee. So I'm trying to find a way to increase
> > my monthly residuals, and at the same time cut down on the workload.
>
> > I figure that setting up a simple system that would allow the smaller
> > clients to do things for themselves would allow me to spend more time
> > on writing programs (my bread and butter), and I'll still get the
> > hosting contract each month.
>
> > - J
>
> I agree with Chad. If the small jobs aren't paying the same hourly
> rate, your contract needs some work.
>
> You need to analyze why you're not getting the same hourly rate from the
> small ones as you do the larger ones, and adjust accordingly.
>
What he said.
Also if you do work for a client and they then want extra changes on
top of that, you then need to write set of charges.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

> I agree with Chad. If the small jobs aren't paying the same hourly
> rate, your contract needs some work.
>
> You need to analyze why you're not getting the same hourly rate from the
> small ones as you do the larger ones, and adjust accordingly.

I think you guys are missing the point, honestly. The simple fact is
that I can make about quadruple on programming as I can on design
work, and these sites with little programming simply aren't cost
effective. Sure, I could increase my design rates, but then I wouldn't
be competitive locally.

Furthermore, I run my own website on which I sell ads, and many of the
local businesses to whom I sell ads do not have a website. This will
make for a much easier sell: "for only $XX.XX more, you can build your
own site, and we'll point your ad to your site". It will also me
to reach the customers that really don't have the money for even a
small website, instead of them going to GoDaddy or whatever. My goal
is to bring in enough of a monthly residual that I can pay my
employees, and still pay myself enough that I could afford to do less
design contracts (which translates to more time for me to pursue other
projects, like the high-dollar programming contracts).

So while I truly appreciate your advice, I've given this a lot of
thought over a year or more, and I believe that offering the templates
with hosting is a good choice for me.

Knowing this, do any of you have experience with any of the template
programs that I mentioned?

Jason Carlton wrote:
>> I agree with Chad. If the small jobs aren't paying the same hourly
>> rate, your contract needs some work.
>>
>> You need to analyze why you're not getting the same hourly rate from the
>> small ones as you do the larger ones, and adjust accordingly.
>
> I think you guys are missing the point, honestly. The simple fact is
> that I can make about quadruple on programming as I can on design
> work, and these sites with little programming simply aren't cost
> effective. Sure, I could increase my design rates, but then I wouldn't
> be competitive locally.
>

So you can put more effort into the programming and make more money.

> Furthermore, I run my own website on which I sell ads, and many of the
> local businesses to whom I sell ads do not have a website. This will
> make for a much easier sell: "for only $XX.XX more, you can build your
> own site, and we'll point your ad to your site". It will also me
> to reach the customers that really don't have the money for even a
> small website, instead of them going to GoDaddy or whatever. My goal
> is to bring in enough of a monthly residual that I can pay my
> employees, and still pay myself enough that I could afford to do less
> design contracts (which translates to more time for me to pursue other
> projects, like the high-dollar programming contracts).
>

Anyone in business has the money for a "small web site" - or they
shouldn't be in business in the first place. It's just a matter of if
they want to pay for it. It's up to you to show them it's worth it.

> So while I truly appreciate your advice, I've given this a lot of
> thought over a year or more, and I believe that offering the templates
> with hosting is a good choice for me.
>

That's fine.

> Knowing this, do any of you have experience with any of the template
> programs that I mentioned?
>

Yep. That's why I don't use them.

My customers don't want -cutter sites. They want sites individual
to their businesses.

But I'm not good at designing, so I sub the design itself out, then I
write the site. My designers aren't cheap, but they're good. And my
customers pay for it because they see what it's worth.

And if a business isn't willing to pay, I let them go somewhere else. I
don't cut my rates to meet their budget.

But it's also interesting to see a fair percentage of them come back to
me after 6-12 months to get a site done right.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Feb 13, 2:39pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Jason Carlton wrote:
> >> I agree with Chad. If the small jobs aren't paying the same hourly
> >> rate, your contract needs some work.
>
> >> You need to analyze why you're not getting the same hourly rate from the
> >> small ones as you do the larger ones, and adjust accordingly.
>
> > I think you guys are missing the point, honestly. The simple fact is
> > that I can make about quadruple on programming as I can on design
> > work, and these sites with little programming simply aren't cost
> > effective. Sure, I could increase my design rates, but then I wouldn't
> > be competitive locally.
>
> So you can put more effort into the programming and make more money.
>
> > Furthermore, I run my own website on which I sell ads, and many of the
> > local businesses to whom I sell ads do not have a website. This will
> > make for a much easier sell: "for only $XX.XX more, you can build your
> > own site, and we'll point your ad to your site". It will also me
> > to reach the customers that really don't have the money for even a
> > small website, instead of them going to GoDaddy or whatever. My goal
> > is to bring in enough of a monthly residual that I can pay my
> > employees, and still pay myself enough that I could afford to do less
> > design contracts (which translates to more time for me to pursue other
> > projects, like the high-dollar programming contracts).
>
> Anyone in business has the money for a "small web site" - or they
> shouldn't be in business in the first place. It's just a matter of if
> they want to pay for it. It's up to you to show them it's worth it.
>
> > So while I truly appreciate your advice, I've given this a lot of
> > thought over a year or more, and I believe that offering the templates
> > with hosting is a good choice for me.
>
> That's fine.
>
> > Knowing this, do any of you have experience with any of the template
> > programs that I mentioned?
>
> Yep. That's why I don't use them.
>
> My customers don't want -cutter sites. They want sites individual
> to their businesses.
>
> But I'm not good at designing, so I sub the design itself out, then I
> write the site. My designers aren't cheap, but they're good. And my
> customers pay for it because they see what it's worth.
>
> And if a business isn't willing to pay, I let them go somewhere else. I
> don't cut my rates to meet their budget.
>
> But it's also interesting to see a fair percentage of them come back to
> me after 6-12 months to get a site done right.
>
I agree.
Although if the project is only small you should charge them less
money (unless they want extra work done after that other project is
completed. You should them charge them a second fee for the extra
work.
I now write up a website plan for all my clients.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

On 12 Feb, 04:31, Jason Carlton <jwcarl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a lot of clients that just want a 2- or 3-page online brochure,
> and to be quite frank, I end up spending more time on these sites than
> on the larger ones!

So improve _your_ processes, so that you don't spend so much time on
them. Look at CMS tools, XSLT etc.

Don't sell your customers on the idea of buildign their own template-
derived sites. You do that and they realise they no longer need you at
all!

Jason Carlton wrote:
> I have a lot of clients that just want a 2- or 3-page online brochure,
> and to be quite frank, I end up spending more time on these sites than
> on the larger ones! More than I could possibly charge for, actually,
> which becomes a problem. So, I'm thinking about encouraging those
> clients to consider one of the free template programs that come free
> with cPanel's Fantastico.
>
> Based on screenshots alone, I'm thinking of Drupal.

If you're targeting non-techies for this, you want something simple that
has a short learning curve. Drupal may be overwhelming to them, besides
being overkill for such a small site. You may spend more time teaching
them how to use it than you would designing that 3-page site from scratch.

> Does anyone have
> any experience on this one? If so, is it a better choice than the
> others for the purposes that I've described?

You know your (potential) clients better than we, but you might want to
install a test version of each of the Fastastico systems and try them
out yourself to see what's most suitable for your purposes. Out of the
available Fantastico choices, though, I lean towards WordPress. It's
pretty easy to use, has oodles of templates and add-ons (if needed) and
is well supported. YMMV.

--
Berg

On Feb 12, 4:31 am, Jason Carlton wrote:
> I have a lot of clients that just want a 2- or 3-page online brochure,
> and to be quite frank, I end up spending more time on these sites than
> on the larger ones! More than I could possibly charge for, actually,
> which becomes a problem. So, I'm thinking about encouraging those
> clients to consider one of the free template programs that come free
> with cPanel's Fantastico.
>
> If you're not familiar with Fantastico, these template programs
> include Drupal, Joomla, WordPress, Geeklog, Mambo Open Source, PHP-
> Nuke, phpWCMS, phpWebSite, Post-Nuke, Siteframe, TYPO3, and Xoops.
>
> I have never used a template program in my life, so I really have no
> idea how good these programs are, or how easy to use they might be. So
> here's my question:
>
> If you were going to pre-install just one of these programs so that
> the computer-illiterate client could set up their own online brochure
> website through a content management system (no FTP, and as user-
> friendly as possible), which one would you choose?

Just to repeat in other words what other people wrote to this
thread...

What are the things which take most of your time?
If it is logo images or the colour scheme, general look etc.,
an experienced web designer is needed more than a CMS.
There are also SEO and accessibility aspects that again
require some experience with web design,
like for SEO the best content for the <title> tags or meta description
tags,
for accessibility and SEO well visible text with contrasting colours
for text and background (there are search engines which require
good visibility of content), for accessibility/usability flexible font
for text...
Then questions better answered again by a web designer/developer,
like is it better to have a captcha for the contact form or not,
how to hide the contact email address from harvesting robots,
what to put in the robots.txt file, for example some websites block
the
contact form page in the robots.txt file, etc. etc.

Maybe see which CMS package is best for you to create
an initial version of the website that would be easily
update-able by your clients.