I have a problem with characters on some pages not others

on this page, I get strange symbols
http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp

and yet, when you follow the link through to the
individual page, there is no problem.
(See 1st listing for example)

They are both using the same charset so why
does one display right and not the other?
TIA.

"T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:

> I have a problem with characters on some pages not others
>
> on this page, I get strange symbols
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>
> and yet, when you follow the link through to the
> individual page, there is no problem.
> (See 1st listing for example)
>
> They are both using the same charset so why
> does one display right and not the other?
> TIA.

You send charset=iso-8859-1 and from the look of it, the source /was/ in
utf-8.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

"John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A15811EB7DD7castleamber@130.133.1.4...
> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I have a problem with characters on some pages not others
>>
>> on this page, I get strange symbols
>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>
>> and yet, when you follow the link through to the
>> individual page, there is no problem.
>> (See 1st listing for example)
>>
>> They are both using the same charset so why
>> does one display right and not the other?
>> TIA.
>
> You send charset=iso-8859-1 and from the look of it, the source /was/ in
> utf-8.
>


Thanks for the reply.
Why would one page work and not the other?
They are both using virtually the same code and
the content is just pulled from the same database.
Is it something my host needs to sort out, and if so
should it be set as utf-8 or iso-8859-1?

"T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:

>
> "John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A15811EB7DD7castleamber@130.133.1.4...
>> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a problem with characters on some pages not others
>>>
>>> on this page, I get strange symbols
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>>
>>> and yet, when you follow the link through to the
>>> individual page, there is no problem.
>>> (See 1st listing for example)
>>>
>>> They are both using the same charset so why
>>> does one display right and not the other?
>>> TIA.
>>
>> You send charset=iso-8859-1 and from the look of it, the source /was/
>> in utf-8.
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
> Why would one page work and not the other?

Hard to say, you gave only one page ;-)

> They are both using virtually the same code and
> the content is just pulled from the same database.

How did it get there?

> Is it something my host needs to sort out, and if so
> should it be set as utf-8 or iso-8859-1?

Depends, if you're only using iso-8859-1, and/or have no problem using
&#xxxx; if not, you could stay with iso-8859-1. But it might make life
easier if you use utf-8. But this means that the software you're using
can handle that (which is not always the case).

I am working on a message board (in Perl) and making everything work
smoothly using UTF-8 took some time, but it does make things easier in
the end.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

"John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1592F65C419castleamber@130.133.1.4...
> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> "John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A15811EB7DD7castleamber@130.133.1.4...
>>> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a problem with characters on some pages not others
>>>>
>>>> on this page, I get strange symbols
>>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>>>
>>>> and yet, when you follow the link through to the
>>>> individual page, there is no problem.
>>>> (See 1st listing for example)
>>>>
>>>> They are both using the same charset so why
>>>> does one display right and not the other?
>>>> TIA.
>>>
>>> You send charset=iso-8859-1 and from the look of it, the source /was/
>>> in utf-8.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>> Why would one page work and not the other?
>
> Hard to say, you gave only one page ;-)

Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
follow the link to the first listing from that page

http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp

http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic

The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK

>
>> They are both using virtually the same code and
>> the content is just pulled from the same database.
>
> How did it get there?

ASP from MySQL database {MySQL ODBC 3.51 Driver}
Individual people submit their own details

T.J. wrote:

> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>
> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK

Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
after all, a list.

<ul>
<li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
<li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
....
</ul>

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> T.J. wrote:
>
>> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
>> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>>
>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>
>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>>
>> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK

As already mentioned, the declared charset doesn't match all the
characters used.

> Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
> after all, a list.
>
> <ul>
> <li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
> <li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
> ...
> </ul>

Agree about the list there, disagree about "losing the problem
entirely." The page is splattered with bad characters, not just used as
fake list bullets. The W3C validator find 185 errors (on a page which is
*way* too long), the vast majority of which are "non SGML character" errors.

--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/

John Hosking wrote:

> Agree about the list there, disagree about "losing the problem
> entirely." The page is splattered with bad characters, not just used
> as fake list bullets. The W3C validator find 185 errors (on a page
> which is *way* too long), the vast majority of which are "non SGML
> character" errors.

Ah. My quick glance noticed the prominent ones in the list. Didn't
realize there was a bunch more.

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

"T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:

> ASP from MySQL database {MySQL ODBC 3.51 Driver}
> Individual people submit their own details

And there is probably where things go wrong. People copy & paste utf-8
data into your form, and then there are many places stuff can go wrong:

- the form handling code can't handle utf-8
- the database columns don't support utf-8
- the "print" code doesn't handle utf-8

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:ETydj.89504$MJ6.25688@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> T.J. wrote:
>
>> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
>> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>>
>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>
>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>>
>> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK
>
> Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
> after all, a list.
>
> <ul>
> <li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
> <li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
> ...
> </ul>
>


Because it is pulled from an input box in which
people add the description.
Most are OK, but that is a bad example as someone
obviously just copied and pasted that in.

The strange one is this,
http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....e=urban%20cutz

it displays OK on that page, but if you scroll down
and see the same listing on this page, (about 9 down)
http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
there are strange symbols in front of the pound signs

"John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A15B5BAC2DDEcastleamber@130.133.1.4...
> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>
>> ASP from MySQL database {MySQL ODBC 3.51 Driver}
>> Individual people submit their own details
>
> And there is probably where things go wrong. People copy & paste utf-8
> data into your form, and then there are many places stuff can go wrong:
>
> - the form handling code can't handle utf-8
> - the database columns don't support utf-8
> - the "print" code doesn't handle utf-8
>

Yes, I thought it was the way people were copying & pasting
in to the submission form, but don't understand why it
displays OK on one page but not another.

Also, the problem has only arisen since changing from using
an Access database and since using a different host.
Is it likely to be something my host can put right by changing
things, or will I have to check all new listings and edit those
which are using bad characters?

"T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote in message
news:SeSdnRE5sZhedevanZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ETydj.89504$MJ6.25688@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> T.J. wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
>>> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>>>
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>>
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>>>
>>> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK
>>
>> Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
>> after all, a list.
>>
>> <ul>
>> <li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
>> <li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
>> ...
>> </ul>
>>
>
>
> Because it is pulled from an input box in which
> people add the description.
> Most are OK, but that is a bad example as someone
> obviously just copied and pasted that in.
>
> The strange one is this,
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....e=urban%20cutz
>
> it displays OK on that page, but if you scroll down
> and see the same listing on this page, (about 9 down)
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
> there are strange symbols in front of the pound signs
>
>

Apologies for replying to my own post.
Just to add, checking the google cache of the page
http://209.85.135.104/search?&q=cach....co.uk%2Fh.asp
google converts it to display OK
how does it do that?

"T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:

>
> "John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A15B5BAC2DDEcastleamber@130.133.1.4...
>> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> ASP from MySQL database {MySQL ODBC 3.51 Driver}
>>> Individual people submit their own details
>>
>> And there is probably where things go wrong. People copy & paste utf-8
>> data into your form, and then there are many places stuff can go wrong:
>>
>> - the form handling code can't handle utf-8
>> - the database columns don't support utf-8
>> - the "print" code doesn't handle utf-8
>>
>
> Yes, I thought it was the way people were copying & pasting
> in to the submission form, but don't understand why it
> displays OK on one page but not another.
>
> Also, the problem has only arisen since changing from using
> an Access database and since using a different host.
> Is it likely to be something my host can put right by changing
> things, or will I have to check all new listings and edit those
> which are using bad characters?

If your columns in MySQL aren't able to handle utf-8 then there isn't much
you can do afaik. Unless you want to handle the form in utf-8 and remap
all special characters (probably doable, but sounds like a lot of work).

What kind of software are you using (i.e. the part that gets the input and
stores it into mysql and back again)?

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

T.J. wrote:
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ETydj.89504$MJ6.25688@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> T.J. wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
>>> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>>>
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>>
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>>>
>>> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK
>> Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
>> after all, a list.
>>
>> <ul>
>> <li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
>> <li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
>> ...
>> </ul>
>>
>
>
> Because it is pulled from an input box in which
> people add the description.
> Most are OK, but that is a bad example as someone
> obviously just copied and pasted that in.
>
> The strange one is this,
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....e=urban%20cutz
>
> it displays OK on that page, but if you scroll down
> and see the same listing on this page, (about 9 down)
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
> there are strange symbols in front of the pound signs
>
>
>

Both display just fine here (on firefox).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

T.J. wrote:
> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ETydj.89504$MJ6.25688@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> T.J. wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
>>> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>>>
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>>
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>>>
>>> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK
>> Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
>> after all, a list.
>>
>> <ul>
>> <li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
>> <li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
>> ...
>> </ul>
>>
>
>
> Because it is pulled from an input box in which
> people add the description.
> Most are OK, but that is a bad example as someone
> obviously just copied and pasted that in.
>
> The strange one is this,
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....e=urban%20cutz
>
> it displays OK on that page, but if you scroll down
> and see the same listing on this page, (about 9 down)
> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
> there are strange symbols in front of the pound signs
>
>
>

I should also add - probably the reason it shows up differently in some
browsers is on the first you have:

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

But the second you have:

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">



--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

John Bokma wrote:
> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A15B5BAC2DDEcastleamber@130.133.1.4...
>>> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ASP from MySQL database {MySQL ODBC 3.51 Driver}
>>>> Individual people submit their own details
>>> And there is probably where things go wrong. People copy & paste utf-8
>>> data into your form, and then there are many places stuff can go wrong:
>>>
>>> - the form handling code can't handle utf-8
>>> - the database columns don't support utf-8
>>> - the "print" code doesn't handle utf-8
>>>
>> Yes, I thought it was the way people were copying & pasting
>> in to the submission form, but don't understand why it
>> displays OK on one page but not another.
>>
>> Also, the problem has only arisen since changing from using
>> an Access database and since using a different host.
>> Is it likely to be something my host can put right by changing
>> things, or will I have to check all new listings and edit those
>> which are using bad characters?
>
> If your columns in MySQL aren't able to handle utf-8 then there isn't much
> you can do afaik. Unless you want to handle the form in utf-8 and remap
> all special characters (probably doable, but sounds like a lot of work).
>
> What kind of software are you using (i.e. the part that gets the input and
> stores it into mysql and back again)?
>

MySQL handles UTF-8 just fine. You just need to tell it you're using
UTF-8 (and, of course, feed it proper UTF-8 characters).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:

> MySQL handles UTF-8 just fine.

Didn't say it doesn't (rather the opposite).

> You just need to tell it you're using
> UTF-8

Yup, and hence the software has to take care of that.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:uZKdnQtJp4_9jOranZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> T.J. wrote:
>> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ETydj.89504$MJ6.25688@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> T.J. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
>>>> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>>>>
>>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>>>
>>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>>>>
>>>> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK
>>> Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
>>> after all, a list.
>>>
>>> <ul>
>>> <li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
>>> <li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
>>> ...
>>> </ul>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Because it is pulled from an input box in which
>> people add the description.
>> Most are OK, but that is a bad example as someone
>> obviously just copied and pasted that in.
>>
>> The strange one is this,
>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....e=urban%20cutz
>>
>> it displays OK on that page, but if you scroll down
>> and see the same listing on this page, (about 9 down)
>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>> there are strange symbols in front of the pound signs
>>
>>
>>
>
> I should also add - probably the reason it shows up differently in some
> browsers is on the first you have:
>
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
>
> But the second you have:
>
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
>
>
>

Thanks,
Yes, I changed the page that was causing the problems
to UTF-8 after posting and just doing that seems to have solved
all problems.
When they were both set to iso-8859-1 one page was displaying
OK the other wasn't
Is it really as simply as just changing the charset?

"John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A15D8B3FB4AEcastleamber@130.133.1.4...
> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> "John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A15B5BAC2DDEcastleamber@130.133.1.4...
>>> "T.J." <no1@home.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ASP from MySQL database {MySQL ODBC 3.51 Driver}
>>>> Individual people submit their own details
>>>
>>> And there is probably where things go wrong. People copy & paste utf-8
>>> data into your form, and then there are many places stuff can go wrong:
>>>
>>> - the form handling code can't handle utf-8
>>> - the database columns don't support utf-8
>>> - the "print" code doesn't handle utf-8
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I thought it was the way people were copying & pasting
>> in to the submission form, but don't understand why it
>> displays OK on one page but not another.
>>
>> Also, the problem has only arisen since changing from using
>> an Access database and since using a different host.
>> Is it likely to be something my host can put right by changing
>> things, or will I have to check all new listings and edit those
>> which are using bad characters?
>
> If your columns in MySQL aren't able to handle utf-8 then there isn't much
> you can do afaik. Unless you want to handle the form in utf-8 and remap
> all special characters (probably doable, but sounds like a lot of work).
>
> What kind of software are you using (i.e. the part that gets the input and
> stores it into mysql and back again)?
>

Thanks, losing me now though.
I simply input in to the database with with my browser
using VBScript

Server.CreateObject("Adodb.Recordset")
Server.CreateObject("Adodb.Connection")

or by using MySQL Query Browser 1.2.12

By changing the bad page to utf-8 it seems OK now,
but on pages where people add characters that are not
utf-8 will I get the opposite problem?

T.J. wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:uZKdnQtJp4_9jOranZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> T.J. wrote:
>>> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:ETydj.89504$MJ6.25688@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>> T.J. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, obviously didn't make it clear enough, I meant
>>>>> follow the link to the first listing from that page
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....eauty%20Clinic
>>>>>
>>>>> The first page displays wrong, the 2nd is OK
>>>> Why don't you just use a list and lose the problem entirely? It is,
>>>> after all, a list.
>>>>
>>>> <ul>
>>>> <li>Friendly and relaxed atmosphere</li>
>>>> <li>Complimentary tea, coffee and juices</li>
>>>> ...
>>>> </ul>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because it is pulled from an input box in which
>>> people add the description.
>>> Most are OK, but that is a bad example as someone
>>> obviously just copied and pasted that in.
>>>
>>> The strange one is this,
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory....e=urban%20cutz
>>>
>>> it displays OK on that page, but if you scroll down
>>> and see the same listing on this page, (about 9 down)
>>> http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/h.asp
>>> there are strange symbols in front of the pound signs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I should also add - probably the reason it shows up differently in some
>> browsers is on the first you have:
>>
>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
>>
>> But the second you have:
>>
>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks,
> Yes, I changed the page that was causing the problems
> to UTF-8 after posting and just doing that seems to have solved
> all problems.
> When they were both set to iso-8859-1 one page was displaying
> OK the other wasn't
> Is it really as simply as just changing the charset?
>
>
>

Well, that's one possible cause, anyway. You need to tell the browser
which charset it should be using. If the charset is identified in the
header (server configuration), that will be used. If not, the browser
looks for a meta tag and uses that, if found. And if none is found, the
browser uses its own default.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================