Through The Internet
INTRODUCTION
The following story occurred on the Internet
through one of the chat programs (Freetel) in January 1999. It is a
real dialogue between a Christian and a Muslim. The story centers on
Derek's realization of today's Christianity and his subsequent
conversion to lslam. This Christian-Muslim dialogue has been edited
for readability and for the clarity of its message.

ABDULLAH: Hello there! How are you man?
DEREK: Hello! Well, how are you?
ABDULLAH: I'm fine and you?
DEREK: I'm fine thanks.
ABDULLAH: Where are you from?
DEREK: I'm from L.A. (Los Angeles).
ABDULLAH: The land of Hollywood!
DEREK: Well that's right. Have you ever been to L.A.?
ABDULLAH: No, never. Why are you calling yourself the Black Magic?
DEREK: It's just a nickname, man!
ABDULLAH: I see.
DEREK: Where are you from? Are you an Arab?
ABDULLAH: Yes, I am from Saudi Arabia but I'm in Qatar now. What is
your name?
DEREK: My name is Derek. What's your name?
ABDULLAH: My name is Abdullah.
DEREK: What does Abdullah mean?
ABDULLAH: Abdullah means the servant of Allah and it is the function
of each individual on the face of the earth to serve llah according to
what Allah wants from us. By the way, Allah is the proper name of
God.
DEREK: How do we know what God or Allah wants from us?
ABDULLAH: All of this is outlined in the Qur'an and the Sunnah (Ways
of Prophet Muhammad; his sayings, actions and aprovals). These are the
two major sources of guidance in lslam. Could you please tell me more
about yourself? How ol are you?
DEREK: I am 19 years old, black and very uch interested in
knowing more about lslam. First of all, what should a person do or
believe in to become a Muslim?
ABDULLAH: Very easy, you just say that there is no god worthy of
worshi but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger, and you become
Muslim,
DEREK: You mean Muhammad is his apostle? But a a Christian or non-
Muslim, this sentence is not enough to make it clear to me.
ABDULLAH: Ok Allah sent Muhammad a His last Prophet and Messenger and
revealed the Qur'an to him as the final revelation to mankind. Allah
said that He perected His religion and called it lslam (see Qur'an
5:3). Islam means peaceful submission to the Will of Allah.
DEREK: I see.
ABDULLAH: Yes, and unfortunately most Christians don't know or they
deny that the coming of Prophet Muhammad is foretold in their
scriptures (See Deuternomy 18:18; 21: 21; Psalms 1 18:22-23; Isiah
42:1-13; Habakuk 3:3-4; Matthew 21:42-43; John 14:12-17,15:26,27;
1:5-16). Muslim theologians have stated that the person who is
described by Jesus to come after him (in the above verses) is Mhammed
(peace be upon him).
DEREK: OK Fine, but why was there a need for another prophet after
Jesus and another revelation after the Bible?
ABDULLAH: All of the Prophets came to teach their peoples the Oneness
of God. In the case of Jesus, he was only sent as a Messenger to the
lost sheep of the house of Israel (see Matt. 15:24). What happened was
that all of these prophets were not well received by the majority of
the people. For instance, they started tampering with the teachings of
Moses and Jesus, peace be upon them (see Qur'an 2:79). That is why
Allah sent Muhammad with the last Message, (i.e., the Qur'an), to
bring all of mankind back to the belief in and worship of One God,
without partners or intermediaries.
DEREK: Is the Qur'an similar to the Bible? I mean, what is it composed
of?
ABDULLAH: The Qur'an came as the last code emphasizing the same pure
monotheistic teachings of Jesus peace be upon him, defending all the
previous pure teachings of monotheistic beliefs and clarifying who
Jesus was and who his mother was, showing that they were no more than
great people.
DEREK: OK then, how-can we be sure that the Qur'an has remained the
same since the time of Prophet Muhammad?
ABDULLAH: Allah Himself has guaranteed that He would guard the Qur'an
from corruption (see Qur'an 15:9). Hence, the real and pure words of
Allah are found in the Qur'an, which was revealed in Arabic, the
language of Mohammed's people. Since then, not an iota has changed.
This is unlike what has happened in the other religions. For example,
if you look at the Bible, you find a lot of versions; the name Bible
itself is indicative of those changes because Bible means a collection
of books from different writers.
DEREK: But didn't God call it the Bible?
ABDULLAH: God calls the Scripture revealed to Jesus "Injeel" in the
Qur'an for which the closest name in the Bible would be the word
Gospel. The Bible was written may years after the time of Jesus in a
language that was alien to Jesus; it was Latin Vulgate, a language
that he never spoke. Isn't this strange? Interestingly, most of what
was written in the New Testament was authored by Paul, who, according
to James, the brother of Jesus in the Bible, had a polluted mind
because he changed and contradicted most of the teachings of Jesus.
DEREK: I think you know more about Christianity than the Pope does.
ABDULLAH: You are wrong by saying that I know more than the Pope. I
have simply investigated the Bible with an inquiring mind, which is
something that all Christians should do.
DEREK: Is there any English version of the Holy Qur'an?
ABDULLAH: There are many translations of the meanings of the Qur'an.
The Qur'an was revealed in Arabic which means that the words of ALLAH
are in Arabic. The translations are the words of human beings relating
to the meanings of the Qur'an to the non-Arabic speaking masses.
DEREK: How does the Qur'an define God to mankind or how does the
Muslim perceive God?
ABDULLAH: GOD is the One and Only True GOD, and the Creator of all. He
does not beget nor is He begotten. He is unlike His creation in every
respect. He is the All-knowing, The Powerful, The Merciful, The
Irresistible, and The King of kings.
DEREK: But it is somehow difficult for me to perceive God as being the
same as His creatures.
ABDULLAH: You are absolutely right to have difficulty perceiving this
because human beings have a limited capacity. This is why ALLAH sent
revelations to His Prophets and Messengers to tell us who He is. So if
you want to know who God is, just read the Qur'an.
DEREK: Christians believe that Jesus was sent for the salvation of all
mankind. If this is not true, then the foundation of Christianity is
faulty. Right? What do you think?
ABDULLAH: That's correct. The Christians of today are following what
Paul taught and also tend to follow what the priests tell them to do
instead of following what Jesus said.
DEREK: Kindly explain the concept of salvation through the
crucifixion of Jesus.
ABDULLAH: In Christianity, the Doctrine of Original Sin is the reason
that there is a need for salvation through Jesus' crucifixion.
However, this doctrine was invented by Paul and it is strongly negated
in the Old Testament (see Ezekial 18:20, Jeremiah 31:30, Deut. 24:16).
This doctrine is an attempt to escape the responsibility of
righteousness with the belief that punishment is given to someone else
to release us from our burden of sins (see Ephesians 1:7, Romans 4:25,
10:9, Corinthians 15:21) In the Qur'an, every soul is responsible for
its own deeds, good or bad (see 74:38,41:46, 3:25, 6:154).
DEREK: What about the crucifixion itself?
ABDULLAH: The Bible says Jesus cried out in a loud voice beseeching
God for on the cross: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken
me?" (Matt. 27:46) Does that sound like Jesus to you?
DEREK: No, then what about Jesus' appearance to his disciples after
the crucifixion?
ABDULLAH: Jesus didn't die on the cross nor was he resurrected. If he
were resurrected, then he would have come to his disciples in a
spiritual body. As shown in Luke 24:36-43, he met them with his
physical body after the event of his alleged crucifixion. In the
Qur'an, it says that Jesus was not crucified, but it was someone else
who was made to look like him (see 4:157,158).
DEREK: How did the story of the crucifixion of Jesus get into the
Bible then?
ABDULLAH: Once again, Paul was responsible (see Timothy 2:8 and
Romans 5:10).
DEREK: Well, I, very deep in my heart, believe that God can never
look like his creation nor does he do what they do. What I believe is
that God is the perfect one who is very much different from everything
we see or touch. In other words, I think the writer can never look
like his book.
ABDULLAH: You are right. There is nothing comparable to Allah (see
Qur'an 112:4). The prophets came with a very clear message to worship
God alone, without any partners or intercessors.
However, Paul took pagan beliefs and practices from the Romans and
mixed them with the teachings of Jesus. Consequently, Paul was mostly
responsible for elevating Jesus to the status of Son of God (see Acts
9:20) and God.
DEREK: Yes. Now I remember. The first Commandment is, " Hear, O
Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord."
ABDULLAH: You're right. That's in Mark 12:29. Moreover, the Qur'an
confirms that God is One: "Say He is Allah, the One and Only
(God)." (Qur'an 112:1)
DEREK: What you are saying makes perfect sense. This is just
incredible! You mean that for almost 2000 years what the Christians
have been following is wrong?
ABDULLAH: Yes, especially their misunderstanding of who Jesus was.
DEREK: Oh my God! I've been deceived! Really, I feel religiously
raped. I have been fooled simply because I followed blindly the
religion that I was born with and didn't take care to investigate it
thoroughly. But still inside me there is something holding me back
from accepting lslam, even though lslam is clearly the True Religion.
ABDULLAH: Your last comment shows that you are a Muslim not a
Christian and if you really love God and His Messenger Jesus, you will
follow lslam and Prophet Muhammad. Break this barrier inside you and
come back to the way of your ancestors. You are now free because you
are looking for the Truth and our great prophet Jesus told us that we
should look for the Truth and the Truth will set us free. So, you will
be a free man as soon as you accept It. Be strong enough to accept
lslam as the Truth, without any hesitation on your part and you will
taste real freedom and real happiness that you have never tasted
before.
DEREK: Frankly, I am concerned about the negative way lslam and
Muslims are shown in the media. In the West, there is a stigma
attached to being a Muslim and I'm not sure I'm ready to live with
that stigma.
ABDULLAH: This is why I have chosen to tell people about the right
picture of lslam.
DEREK: Then, what is the right picture of lslam?
ABDULLAH: The right picture of lslam is conveyed in the Qur'an, which
is exemplified by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. The reality is
that it is not fair to judge a religion by the actions of its
followers alone because there are good and bad followers in every
religion. The correct thing to do is to judge a religion by its
documented revelation from God and the prophet who brought that
revelation.
DEREK: I see. I agree with you, but I'm still concerned about the
reaction of my family and friends if they know that I am a Muslim.
ABDULLAH: On Judgement Day, no one will be able to you, not even
your father, mother or any of your friends (see Qur'an 31:33). So, if
you believe that lslam is the True religion, you should embrace it and
live your life to please the One Who created you. Be an illuminating
torch for them. Do not delay your coming to lslam. If you die before
becoming a Muslim, then it's too late (see Qur'an 2:132, 3:102, 3:85).
So grab this opportunity now. You can only remedy this pain inside you
by becoming a Muslim and being able in the future, God willing, to
come and perform pilgrimage (Hajj).
DEREK: You are very wise man, I want to say that when I sometimes see
on the satellite, especially in the season of Hajj, people of
different colors and different races sitting side by side and praying
to God, I feel pain deep inside my heart and I feel something urging
me to talk with someone to know more about that great religion that
can gather all the races in the same place. Thanks to you, I have
found that person. So please me become a Muslim!
ABDULLAH: Brother let us take it step by step. First, enter lslam
by saying: I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD WORTHY OF WORSHIP
EXCEPT ALLAH. AND I BEAR WITNESS THAT MUHAMMAD IS HIS SERVANT AND
MESSENGER. I BEAR WITNESS THAT JESUS IS HIS PROPHET AND MESSENGER. Let
us say this again, I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD WORTHY OF
WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH AND I BEAR WITNESS THAT MUHAMMAD IS HIS SERVANT
AND MESSENGER. I BEAR WITNESS THAT JESUS IS HIS PROPHET AND
MESSENGERS. I BEAR WITNESS THAT JESUS IS HIS PROPHET AND MESSENGER.
DEREK: I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT
ALLAH. I BEAR WITNESS THAT MUHAMMAD IS HIS SERVANT AND LAST MESSENGER.
I BEAR WITNESS THAT EISA IS HIS SERVANT AND MESSENGER.
ABDULLAH: By the way, Jesus' name is not Jesus. It is a latinized
name. His real name is Eisa. Now you will say the same thing in
Arabic, the language of the Qur'an. I will transliterate for you.
ASH'HADU AN LA'ILAHA ILLA ALLAH WAASH'HADU ANNA MUHAMMMADAN
RASOOLULLAH WA ASH'HADU ANNA EISA ABDULLAHI WA RASOOLUHU.
DEREK: ASHADU AN LA ILAHA ILLALLAH WA ASHADU ANNA MUHAMMADAN
RASULULLAH WA ASHADU ANNA EISA ABDULLAH1 WA RASOOLUHU.
ABDULLAH: Brother, say ALLAH is the greatest because you are a Muslim
now. You are not a Christian anymore. Your are in the House of lslam.
If I were with you, I would hug you as my brother in lslam. How do you
feel now? A burden has been removed from you and you feel like you are
so light, isn't this right?
DEREK: If you were with me now, you would have seen my tears reaching
my neck. You are a great brother. I feel that I have just come to
life, This is exactly how I feel from now. I don't have to listen the
silly words of the priests in the church, who knowingly or unknowingly
lead people astray. I hope to be a good servant of ALLAH.
ABDULLAH: You know what came out of you was disbelief and it was
replaced by belief. You are so clean now, because when someone
embraces Islam sincerely, Allah forgives all of his past sins. So, go
to the Islamic center that has Muslims from all over the world and
announce your lslam there, and continue to learn more about lslam from
them. In addition, find a book on prayer in lslam and practice it.
This is essential. Now after you are through with me, you must take a
shower to purify yourself from previous wrong beliefs. Remember to
stay away from bad company and be with righteous Muslim people. Also,
beware of those so-called Muslims who call to nationalistic ideas or
racial thoughts, which are rejected in lslam. I love you as a brother
in lslam and I hope one day I will see you and hear your voice.
DEREK: I will for sure do what you have asked. And tomorrow I will go
to the Islamic center. Thank you for showing me the Truth. I will do
my best to meet people who know about lslam for sure. May God you
guide more and more people to the true word of God. There is no God
but ALLAH and Muhammad is his Apostle... Well it is as difficult for
me as it is for you to leave you.
ABDULLAH: Well brother, you will not leave me for a long time. I will
soon be with you through my supplications. God willing. Pray for me,
brother.
DEREK: Well, I thank you, I love you although I do not know you yet.
But it is enough for me to remember that one day, a very dear man has
picked me up from the mud of life. Please teach me another Islamic
word in Arabic so as to make use of it in the Islamic center.
ABDULLAH: Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu and
Astaghfirullah.
DEREK: What do they mean?
ABDULLAH: May the Peace, Mercy and Blessings of Allah be upon you.
This is used as a greeting to all Muslims. The last word means, Allah
forgive me. Well, I have to leave you now but be sure it will not be
for long.
DEREK: Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu and Astaghfirullah
for being astray from the Truth all those years. May God bless you.
You have occupied a great place in my heart and I will never forget
you. Bye and talk to you later. Your brother in lslam, Derek, but I
will call myself Eisa from now on.
ABDULLAH: OK Eisa. I will leave you some final words of inspiration.
Certainly, the ultimate goal of every individual is to be in Paradise
forever. This reward of Paradise is too great to not have a price.
That price is true faith, which is proven obedience to Allah and
following the Sunnah of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). THIS IS THE ROAD TO
PARADISE. Let's stay in touch! Assalamu Alaikum!
DEREK: O.K. Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu




Publication's Source www.islamworld.net





www.dawahmemo.com

abdo911 wrote:
> Through The Internet
> INTRODUCTION
> The following story occurred on the Internet
> through one of the chat programs (Freetel) in January 1999. It is a
> real dialogue


Bullshit.


--
"I get the impression that Jamie is a papusa or two short of a
combination plate." - Kent Wills

"So you think AUK is some kind of really tight knit CABAL?
ROTFLMAO! Its a bunch of lazy tossers with too much time
on their hands and few friends.
WELCOME TO USENET.
Drive thru please..." - §ñühw¤£f

WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:

>abdo911 wrote:
>> Through The Internet
>> INTRODUCTION
>> The following story occurred on the Internet
>> through one of the chat programs (Freetel) in January 1999. It is a
>> real dialogue=20
>
>
> Bullshit.

If you think that bit's bad, you should try the Koran! A worse fairy
story I can not imagine.

Without doubt, Islam is the most vile, offensive and oppressive
philosophy to ever blacken the earth. That should guarantee me a death
sentence (in case anyone doubted just how oppressive Islam is).

X

(Secret Agent X) wrote:

> WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:
>
>>abdo911 wrote:
>>> Through The Internet
>>> INTRODUCTION
>>> The following story occurred on the Internet
>>> through one of the chat programs (Freetel) in January 1999. It is a
>>> real dialogue=20
>>
>>
>> Bullshit.
>
> If you think that bit's bad, you should try the Koran! A worse fairy
> story I can not imagine.
>
> Without doubt, Islam is the most vile, offensive and oppressive
> philosophy to ever blacken the earth.

Since the Koran is partially based on the bible, maybe you got a point.
Or maybe you're one of those "believers" who didn't take time to actually
read (parts) of the book, and hence didn't get sick. Or you consider
slaughtering animals to paint the doors to avoid killing first borns a
normal act?

Anyway, from my point of view they are both just a collection of stories.
It are the zealots who "interpret" those that are the real evil.

> That should guarantee me a death
> sentence

Not long ago the same was true for the bible. A lot of clueless people
think that because their civilization is "advanced" that they can use it
as a reference point.


--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

abdo911 wrote:
> Islam means peaceful submission to the Will of Allah.

The all new Apple iSlam....
http://img354.rockyou.com/imagehost/...97083857_m.jpg

John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>(Secret Agent X) wrote:
>
>> WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>abdo911 wrote:
>>>> Through The Internet
>>>> INTRODUCTION
>>>> The following story occurred on the Internet
>>>> through one of the chat programs (Freetel) in January 1999. It is a
>>>> real dialogue=20
>>>
>>>
>>> Bullshit.
>>
>> If you think that bit's bad, you should try the Koran! A worse fairy
>> story I can not imagine.
>>
>> Without doubt, Islam is the most vile, offensive and oppressive
>> philosophy to ever blacken the earth.
>
>Since the Koran is partially based on the bible, maybe you got a point.
>Or maybe you're one of those "believers" who didn't take time to actually
>read (parts) of the book, and hence didn't get sick. Or you consider
>slaughtering animals to paint the doors to avoid killing first borns a
>normal act?
>
>Anyway, from my point of view they are both just a collection of stories.
>It are the zealots who "interpret" those that are the real evil.
>
>> That should guarantee me a death
>> sentence
>
>Not long ago the same was true for the bible. A lot of clueless people
>think that because their civilization is "advanced" that they can use it
>as a reference point.
>
>

I'll not argue with you, John. All the Abrahamic religions are vile.

Now at least the Jews, Christians and Muslims can unite in their hated
of me.

X

Secret Agent X wrote:
> John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>> (Secret Agent X) wrote:
>>
>>> WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> abdo911 wrote:
>>>>> Through The Internet
>>>>> INTRODUCTION
>>>>> The following story occurred on the Internet
>>>>> through one of the chat programs (Freetel) in January 1999. It is a
>>>>> real dialogue=20
>>>>
>>>> Bullshit.
>>> If you think that bit's bad, you should try the Koran! A worse fairy
>>> story I can not imagine.
>>>
>>> Without doubt, Islam is the most vile, offensive and oppressive
>>> philosophy to ever blacken the earth.
>> Since the Koran is partially based on the bible, maybe you got a point.
>> Or maybe you're one of those "believers" who didn't take time to actually
>> read (parts) of the book, and hence didn't get sick. Or you consider
>> slaughtering animals to paint the doors to avoid killing first borns a
>> normal act?
>>
>> Anyway, from my point of view they are both just a collection of stories.
>> It are the zealots who "interpret" those that are the real evil.
>>
>>> That should guarantee me a death
>>> sentence
>> Not long ago the same was true for the bible. A lot of clueless people
>> think that because their civilization is "advanced" that they can use it
>> as a reference point.
>>
>>
>
> I'll not argue with you, John. All the Abrahamic religions are vile.
>

That may be true compared to Christianity, or not; but the major
point here is that the vast majority of Christians have progressed and
evolved to understand that it is not okay to stone a whore or other such
radical punishment. Many Muslims still think that hanging a 16 yo who is
possibly confused about sexual orientation is the proper response, or
beheading a 13 yo girl to protect the family of embarrassment of her no
longer being a virgin because she was raped by 5 older brothers and
cousins. Yes, that's vile but you can not put all of the blame on the
religion or the book. The people who follow it blindly without the use
of any higher thought are the ones to blame.

--
"I get the impression that Jamie is a papusa or two short of a
combination plate." - Kent Wills

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:

> That may be true compared to Christianity, or not; but the major
> point here is that the vast majority of Christians have progressed and
> evolved to understand that it is not okay to stone a whore or other
> such radical punishment.

Why stone a whore when you can invade countries?

> Many Muslims still think that hanging a 16 yo
> who is possibly confused about sexual orientation is the proper
> response,

Heh, how does that differ from harrassing people in such a way that they
kill themselves (and kill some class mates while doing so as well?)


Doesn't the bible somewhere talk about wipe the shit from your own ass
first before you complain about the farts of others?

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:

>
> That may be true compared to Christianity, or not; but the major
>point here is that the vast majority of Christians have progressed and
>evolved to understand that it is not okay to stone a whore or other such
>radical punishment.

You think so? Try visiting the third world. Christians still murder
homosexuals in the name of the bible.

X

Secret Agent X wrote:
> WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:
>
>> That may be true compared to Christianity, or not; but the major
>> point here is that the vast majority of Christians have progressed and
>> evolved to understand that it is not okay to stone a whore or other such
>> radical punishment.
>
> You think so? Try visiting the third world. Christians still murder
> homosexuals in the name of the bible.
>
> X
>


You're missing my point. That's the third world, *most* Christians
live in the US or UK. In those places the vast majority of people have
"smartened up."

--
"Pontiac giving us the Aztec is like someone telling a
story they think isn't funny but everyone laughs anyway." - Michael Johnson

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

(Secret Agent X) wrote:

> WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> That may be true compared to Christianity, or not; but the major
>>point here is that the vast majority of Christians have progressed and
>>evolved to understand that it is not okay to stone a whore or other such
>>radical punishment.
>
> You think so? Try visiting the third world. Christians still murder
> homosexuals in the name of the bible.

Heh, heterosexuals as well:
<http://www.google.com/search?q=cape%20verde%20stoned%20to%20death>

(For the uninformed, Cape Verde is mostly Catholic).

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/

WindsorFox-{SS}- <windsorfox@NOSPAMcox.net> wrote:

> You're missing my point. That's the third world, *most* Christians
> live in the US or UK. In those places the vast majority of people have
> "smartened up."

UK 60,776,238 71.6% = 43,515,786
US 301,139,947 76% = 228,866,360
----------- +
272,382,146

Mexico 108,700,891 82.8% = 90,004,338
Brazil 190,010,647 89% = 169,109,476
Nicaragua 5,675,356 89.6% = 5,085,119
Philippines 91,077,287 92.5 = 84,246,490
South Africa 43,997,828 79.7% = 35,0662,69

sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Not unexpectedly, religious extremists always have major issues with
facts, unless it s their cause.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/