I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
esthetic quality.

The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.

I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
<http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open for
any suggestions (be nice!).

Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

In article <tv2qh3hqlueoq1a6l68l0u6dppr4qbhs1p@4ax.com>, edMbj@aes-
intl.com says...
> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
> my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
> esthetic quality.
>
> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open for
> any suggestions (be nice!).
>
> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?


Yuck to both versions. I hate the green.

Text placement issues in version II.

Start over.

Ed Jay wrote:
> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but
> I think my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on
> improving the esthetic quality.
>
> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open
> for any suggestions (be nice!).
>
> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?

Get a much better header graphic, set the page to 100% liquid, and maybe
think of a softer, more welcoming color than the various shades of green and
neon you have.

Ed Jay wrote:

> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I
> think my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on
> improving the esthetic quality.
>
> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open
> for any suggestions (be nice!).

Except for the harsh green background, both pages look the same to me.

It won't fit in my browser window without horizontal scrolling. That's a
no-no. http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

Here is what I see if I maximize my browser (something I never do except
in situations like this):
http://k75s.home.att.net/show/breast.jpg

The green logo and background at the top does not extend to the right to
be over the third column.

So, other than adding the green and breaking the right column, what else
did you change?

> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?

Besides that? That is important, as the page(s) fall apart as soon as I
increase the text size to a comfortable level.

Please read this, and forget about using points (and pixels). Points are
for printing.
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

Ed Jay wrote:
> I need some suggestions on improving the
> esthetic quality.
>
> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.

You *must* get rid of the explicit height on .nav

15px is not nearly enough space when the browsers text size is larger
than you accounted for. If you must set a height, use ems instead of px
so it adjusts with text size. You should also add some vertical padding
for readability and so the visitor has a nice big area to "click".

--
Berg

Bergamot scribed:

>Ed Jay wrote:
>> I need some suggestions on improving the
>> esthetic quality.
>>
>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
>You *must* get rid of the explicit height on .nav
>
>15px is not nearly enough space when the browsers text size is larger
>than you accounted for. If you must set a height, use ems instead of px
>so it adjusts with text size. You should also add some vertical padding
>for readability and so the visitor has a nice big area to "click".

Thanks.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

G scribed:

>Ed Jay wrote:
>> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but
>> I think my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on
>> improving the esthetic quality.
>>
>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>>
>> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
>> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open
>> for any suggestions (be nice!).
>>
>> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?
>
>Get a much better header graphic, set the page to 100% liquid, and maybe
>think of a softer, more welcoming color than the various shades of green and
>neon you have.
>
Thanks for your response.

What do you mean by 'get a much better header graphic?'

I don't care for the green either. I was using it only to show the possible
use of color to break up the boring white page. I probably shouldn't have
posted it and started from the vanilla page.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

Beauregard T. Shagnasty scribed:

>Ed Jay wrote:
>
>> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I
>> think my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on
>> improving the esthetic quality.
>>
>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>>
>> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
>> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open
>> for any suggestions (be nice!).
>
>Except for the harsh green background, both pages look the same to me.

I was experimenting with using colors to break up the page.
>
>It won't fit in my browser window without horizontal scrolling. That's a
>no-no. http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

I've designed it for viewing in a 1024X768 window. I need to stay with that
resolution.
>
>Here is what I see if I maximize my browser (something I never do except
>in situations like this):
>http://k75s.home.att.net/show/breast.jpg

Ugly page, but I like the content. :-)
>
>The green logo and background at the top does not extend to the right to
>be over the third column.
>
>So, other than adding the green and breaking the right column, what else
>did you change?

Not much...I think I made the center column fluid, added the colors and a
couple of borders. Experimenting.
>
>> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?
>
>Besides that? That is important, as the page(s) fall apart as soon as I
>increase the text size to a comfortable level.
>
>Please read this, and forget about using points (and pixels). Points are
>for printing.
>http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

We're on the same page. I wrote the public page using absolute positioning,
fixed fonts, widths, etc., and concentrated on the site content. Now it's
time to address page sizing issues.

Thanks for the input.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

SAZ scribed:

>In article <tv2qh3hqlueoq1a6l68l0u6dppr4qbhs1p@4ax.com>, edMbj@aes-
>intl.com says...
>> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
>> my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
>> esthetic quality.
>>
>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>>
>> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
>> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open for
>> any suggestions (be nice!).
>>
>> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?
>
>
>Yuck to both versions. I hate the green.

You seem to be in good company.
>
>Text placement issues in version II.
>
>Start over.

Anything's possible.

Thanks.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

On 2007-10-22, Ed Jay wrote:
>
>
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty scribed:
>
>>Ed Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I
>>> think my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on
>>> improving the esthetic quality.
>>>
>>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>>>
>>> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
>>> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open
>>> for any suggestions (be nice!).
>>
>>Except for the harsh green background, both pages look the same to me.
>
> I was experimenting with using colors to break up the page.
>>
>>It won't fit in my browser window without horizontal scrolling. That's a
>>no-no. http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign
>
> I've designed it for viewing in a 1024X768 window. I need to stay with that
> resolution.

Why? A fluid design will work in a 1024x768 window -- and other
sizes. A design for a 1024x768 window will _only_ work in that size
of window.

Avoid using width and height specification unless they are needed.
They cause more problems than they solve:

<http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/tas.jpg>
<http://cfaj.freeshell.org/testing/tas2.jpg>


--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Ed Jay wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty scribed:
>> It won't fit in my browser window without horizontal scrolling.
>> That's a no-no. http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign
>
> I've designed it for viewing in a 1024X768 window. I need to stay
> with that resolution.

What if I want to look up breasts on my mobile phone? My PDA? My two
browser windows side by side, each about 900px, and filling my
wide-screen monitor?

What is the reason you think you "need to stay with that resolution."

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

Ed Jay wrote:
> Now it's time to address page sizing issues.

Yes, it is.

http://scottbryce.com/scratch/tas.gif

Ed Jay wrote:
> G scribed:
>
>> Ed Jay wrote:
>>> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but
>>> I think my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on
>>> improving the esthetic quality.
>>>
>>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>>>
>>> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
>>> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm
>>> open for any suggestions (be nice!).
>>>
>>> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?
>>
>> Get a much better header graphic, set the page to 100% liquid, and
>> maybe think of a softer, more welcoming color than the various
>> shades of green and neon you have.
>>
> Thanks for your response.
>
> What do you mean by 'get a much better header graphic?'
>
> I don't care for the green either. I was using it only to show the
> possible use of color to break up the boring white page. I probably
> shouldn't have posted it and started from the vanilla page.

Ok. I thought the plain vanilla served up was what you were building with.
Hence the "get the green out"

Better as in quality

Ed Jay wrote:
> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
> my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
> esthetic quality.
>
> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open for
> any suggestions (be nice!).
>
> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?

I agree with the other comments, especially about the green and fluid
design. Even at 1024x786 (what I'm running on my laptop) I get a
horizontal scroll bar.

And I'd also suggest some color to the background of the menu items on
the left. With a colored background for the screen, their white
background stands out a bit much.

Overall, however, I like the idea. Just some tweaking and I think
you'll have it.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Ed Jay wrote:
> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
> my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
> esthetic quality.
>
> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.

Nav link boxes kinda crowded. Did you intend that horizontal line?

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/jay01.jpg

Firefox. That's the only page I looked at.

--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org

Ed Jay wrote:

> I was experimenting with using colors to break up the page.

Good concept, but they need not be garish.


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

> What if I want to look up breasts on my mobile phone?

If you mean images, then you're a normal guy putting his phone to good
use.


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org

Blinky the Shark scribed:

>Ed Jay wrote:
>
>> I was experimenting with using colors to break up the page.
>
>Good concept, but they need not be garish.

When one is color blind, it doesn't matter (for conceptual testing).
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

Blinky the Shark scribed:

>Ed Jay wrote:
>> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
>> my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
>> esthetic quality.
>>
>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
>Nav link boxes kinda crowded.

I changed them a bunch.

>Did you intend that horizontal line?

Only as an experiment.
>
>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/comp/jay01.jpg
>
>Firefox. That's the only page I looked at.

In IE and FF I have it looking the way I think I expect but it's a little
screwed up in Opera, my browser of choice.

I've uploaded revised pages...actually, style sheet changes.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

Ed Jay wrote:
> I've uploaded revised pages...actually, style sheet changes.

And the header and footer are still off-center if the viewport is wider
than 1024 pixels. (Centered in the viewport. Off-center in relationship
to the rest of the page.)

Actually, this is the case no matter what size the viewport is. You are
relying on a 1024 pixel wide window to make everything align correctly.
Don't do that.

"Ed Jay" <edMbj@aes-intl.com> wrote in message
news:btvqh39llc6tthjq2uhr0jlauakkb62d1p@4ax.com...

>>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.

> I've uploaded revised pages...actually, style sheet changes.

Get rid of *ALL* mention of height for those nav boxes. Even one click up on
font size causes them to break.

--
Richard.

Ed Jay wrote:

>>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
> In IE and FF I have it looking the way I think I expect but it's a
> little screwed up in Opera, my browser of choice.
>
> I've uploaded revised pages...actually, style sheet changes.

You still have work to do.
http://k75s.home.att.net/show/breast2.jpg

Stop using pixels to define the size of those 'menu buttons'... when I
increase the text size because of my vision problem, the text/links fail
to 'stay in the box.' Normally, pixels should only be used for things
like borders and such.

Notice the horizontal scrollbar. :-/

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

Ed Jay wrote:
> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
> my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
> esthetic quality.
>
> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>
> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open for
> any suggestions (be nice!).


Since I'm hanging around for a few days, I'll add some comments. I'm
not a designer, but I know a few things about spacing and colors. In the
process I'll catch a little hell from the locals.

I'm going to ignore problems of how this appears in browsers other
than IE, and just look at IE. (Note bit above). You will have to fix
that yourself.

I personally don't like to use absolutely positioned layouts, or lots
of inlines styles and classes. I will address that now because you've
made it much more difficult to change basic styles by doing that. Let's
look at this bit of html:

<div> ...
<p><span class=F6
style="font-size:12pt;color:#330099;">Efficiency</span>&nbsp;
<!-- <p><a class= "pointers2"
href="brth_efficiency.html">Efficiency</a>&nbsp; -->
<span class=F7>Efficiency ...</span>…<a class= "more"
href="brth_efficiency.html">Click to continue</a>
</p><br>

<p><span class=F6 style="font-size:12pt;color:#330099;">Economy</span>&nbsp;
<!-- <p><a class= "pointers2"
href="brth_economy.html">Economy</a>&nbsp; -->
<span class=F7>TAS breast ... services</span>…<a class= "more"
href="brth_economy.html">Click to continue</a>
</p>
</div>

Now, how would you change the styling for that? You'd have to go in
and change all those inline styles.

Try doing this instead:

<div id="main">
....
<p>...
</p>

Now you can style everything using decendants and your html will be more
maintainable by leaving the styles in the stylesheet:

#main p{font-size:12pt;color:#330099;}
#main a{style for links}

BTW, don't use points, you'll be in for a big surprise when you find out
Mac points are different than PC.

In fact, usually what I do is set default font styles for the body
element and just style what needs to be different. And do that using
decendants (as above) if you can.

Now lets looks at some margins. Do you see how your three columns all
start at different vertical levels. Don't do that. Line them up.

Lets look at the h1 heading. There's way too much whitespace here and
it really doesn't need to be on two lines. Move the login box (and
change it's hover styles) to either the left or right column.

As with all your boxes you should have the same amount of whitespace
above the heading as below. Ditto that on the side links, they just look
off with more padding below than above. You'll probably want to
text-align them center. The h1 padding looks better outside IE than
using IE.

The HR top line and right vertical line should all be the same color
as your left column background color and for that matter, your body
background color.

The "Read more about" box needs to be restyled also, but that's
enough of me for now.

HTH,

Jeff




>
> Any thoughts (besides change font scaling)?

Jeff scribed:

>Ed Jay wrote:
>> I've finished with my site's content and I'm ready to roll out...but I think
>> my home page looks really crappy. I need some suggestions on improving the
>> esthetic quality.
>>
>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>>
>> I've toyed with a few changes, notably seen at
>> <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com/indexNew.html>, but I'm open for
>> any suggestions (be nice!).
>
>
> Since I'm hanging around for a few days, I'll add some comments. I'm
>not a designer, but I know a few things about spacing and colors. In the
>process I'll catch a little hell from the locals.
>
> I'm going to ignore problems of how this appears in browsers other
>than IE, and just look at IE. (Note bit above). You will have to fix
>that yourself.
>
> I personally don't like to use absolutely positioned layouts, or lots
>of inlines styles and classes. I will address that now because you've
>made it much more difficult to change basic styles by doing that. Let's
>look at this bit of html:
>
><div> ...
><p><span class=F6
>style="font-size:12pt;color:#330099;">Efficiency</span>&nbsp;
><!-- <p><a class= "pointers2"
>href="brth_efficiency.html">Efficiency</a>&nbsp; -->
><span class=F7>Efficiency ...</span>…<a class= "more"
>href="brth_efficiency.html">Click to continue</a>
></p><br>
>
><p><span class=F6 style="font-size:12pt;color:#330099;">Economy</span>&nbsp;
><!-- <p><a class= "pointers2"
>href="brth_economy.html">Economy</a>&nbsp; -->
><span class=F7>TAS breast ... services</span>…<a class= "more"
>href="brth_economy.html">Click to continue</a>
></p>
></div>
>
> Now, how would you change the styling for that? You'd have to go in
>and change all those inline styles.
>
> Try doing this instead:
>
><div id="main">
>...
><p>...
></p>
>
>Now you can style everything using decendants and your html will be more
> maintainable by leaving the styles in the stylesheet:
>
>#main p{font-size:12pt;color:#330099;}
>#main a{style for links}
>
>BTW, don't use points, you'll be in for a big surprise when you find out
>Mac points are different than PC.
>
> In fact, usually what I do is set default font styles for the body
>element and just style what needs to be different. And do that using
>decendants (as above) if you can.
>
> Now lets looks at some margins. Do you see how your three columns all
>start at different vertical levels. Don't do that. Line them up.
>
> Lets look at the h1 heading. There's way too much whitespace here and
>it really doesn't need to be on two lines. Move the login box (and
>change it's hover styles) to either the left or right column.
>
> As with all your boxes you should have the same amount of whitespace
>above the heading as below. Ditto that on the side links, they just look
>off with more padding below than above. You'll probably want to
>text-align them center. The h1 padding looks better outside IE than
>using IE.
>
> The HR top line and right vertical line should all be the same color
>as your left column background color and for that matter, your body
>background color.
>
> The "Read more about" box needs to be restyled also, but that's
>enough of me for now.
>
Thanks, Jeff. Lots of good hints.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)

Beauregard T. Shagnasty scribed:

>Ed Jay wrote:
>
>>>> The plain vanilla page is <http://breastthermographyevaluation.com>.
>>
>> In IE and FF I have it looking the way I think I expect but it's a
>> little screwed up in Opera, my browser of choice.
>>
>> I've uploaded revised pages...actually, style sheet changes.
>
>You still have work to do.
>http://k75s.home.att.net/show/breast2.jpg
>
>Stop using pixels to define the size of those 'menu buttons'... when I
>increase the text size because of my vision problem, the text/links fail
>to 'stay in the box.' Normally, pixels should only be used for things
>like borders and such.
>
>Notice the horizontal scrollbar. :-/

What screen size and resolution are you using?
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)