From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm

Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
and you might be one of them.

Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.

And then there are the games. Dr Luis von Ahn of Carnegie Mellon
University estimated that in 2003, nine billion human hours were spent
playing computer solitaire.

To put this in context, the construction of the Panama Canal took 20
million human-hours.

Being a computer scientist, Dr von Ahn was aware of projects like
SETI@home, where volunteers donate "wasted cycles" (the spare time of
their home computers) to the Berkeley Space Sciences Laboratory
look for signs of extra-terrestrial life.

For all the elaborate projects that computers are working on, there
are still some things these machines are very poor at. One of these is
seeing. A computer will recognise that something is an image, but will
have no idea what it is an image of. So a project to, say, label all
the images on the web will need to get humans to pitch in and .

But who is going to sit around saying what they see for hours at a
time? Enter Dr von Ahn, with a new game.

"Rather than paying people to label images for me, I get them to want
to label images for free."

How to play

This is the game you might have been playing online: paired up with a
stranger, both of you are shown the same image, and both come up with
a label for that image that the other will have thought of. Once you
get a match, you move on, building up points.

It's important to understand how compulsive this simple activity can
be: it is a race, and it is rewarding when you find a partner on the
same wavelength. And if a partner fails to label quickly enough, there
is the frustration of lost points - even though the rewarding of said
points is wholly arbitrary and worthless.

Dr von Ahn has created a suite of image-labelling games, and noticed
many players putting in more than hours each week. For the public
good, he decided to cut players off after 10 hours of continuous play
if they had connected from a university computer.

So, many images are getting many labels. To what end?

A scientist, of course, should not need to have applications in mind
in order to be seized by a challenge. For his part, Dr von Ahn talks
of better browsing for the visually impaired, and better cataloguing
of data.

And when he talked about these things at Google HQ recently, it is not
hard to imagine the appeal of the game to his hosts - and their
shareholders.

One licensing agreement later, and an academic research project has
become a Google Images game - and the results are proliferating.

In fact, you do not even need to be online to be contributing: your
strings of guesses are memorised, and other players may be playing
against a phantom "you" - or it might even be a phantom "them" against
a phantom "you", building up matches all the time.

Sweatshop potential

Having spent time ing out computers with the tasks they cannot do,
you might wonder - was this not supposed to be the other way round?

Dr von Ahn's previous contribution to the web was the "captcha", the
distorted string of letters or numbers that have to be decoded before
pressing "send" in online forms.

One unintended consequence has been the alleged existence of "captcha
sweatshops" in the developing world, where spammers employ humans to
decode 12 "captchas" a minute, all day long.

So what might the unintended consequences of the Google Image Labeler
be? The answer probably depends on how literally to take the Matrix
films.

But making humans enjoy ing computers to see things - primarily to
see humans - is likely to affect more than web-browsing for the
visually impaired.

--
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Smart idea! Hmm... That combination of game and usefulness could be
used for many things.

al.

Yahoo! Answers uses a similar idea with a system where people receive
points.

al.

__/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__

> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>
> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
> and you might be one of them.
>
> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>
> <snip />

More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images for
Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated people for
their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it encourages people to serve
as test dummies. Why would people multi-billion corporations for free?
it's beyond me...

Microsoft wants more Vista testers

,----[ Feed Excerpt ]
| It hopes to have about 5 million testers checking out latest version
| of Windows update, as it tries to stamp out bugs.
`----

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6115744.html

Best wishes,

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | Those who can, Open-Source
http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Load average (/proc/loadavg): 0.47 0.63 0.86 4/152 27616
http://iuron.com - semantic search engine project initiative

Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

> __/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>
>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>
>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid
>> - and you might be one of them.
>>
>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>
>> <snip />
>
> More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images
> for Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated
> people for their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it
> encourages people to serve as test dummies. Why would people
> multi-billion corporations for free? it's beyond me...

I did the labeling thing with Google Images a few times. It's fun.
Although some of the images are way too small.

As for free? If Google can label the images better, I would be very happy.
AI is not (yet) going to work, I am afraid :-D.

I use Image search a lot, and correctly labelled images are certainly
worth my time. Your question is the same as: why post people on Usenet, or
comment on blogs, or why do people write open source.

Because they can :-)

> Microsoft wants more Vista testers

Yup, good plan. More testers means that bugs will be found sooner, before
the official release comes out. It's in everybody's best interest that as
much are ironed out as possible, especially since there are people who
refuse to patch/update.

--
John Need with SEO? Get started with a SEO report of your site:

--> http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-.html

__/ [ John Bokma ] on Friday 15 September 2006 06:27 \__

> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>> __/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>>
>>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>>
>>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid
>>> - and you might be one of them.
>>>
>>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>>
>>> <snip />
>>
>> More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images
>> for Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated
>> people for their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it
>> encourages people to serve as test dummies. Why would people
>> multi-billion corporations for free? it's beyond me...
>
> I did the labeling thing with Google Images a few times. It's fun.
> Although some of the images are way too small.


Why not use captions and the alt attribute as they already do, at least in
part? It can be trusted as much as an army of volunteers.


> As for free? If Google can label the images better, I would be very happy.
> AI is not (yet) going to work, I am afraid :-D.


For some images, you can get decent certainty. Google services already make
use of face recognition -- a recent Google acquition (IP acquisition, as
much as a company/software acquisition).


> I use Image search a lot, and correctly labelled images are certainly
> worth my time. Your question is the same as: why post people on Usenet, or
> comment on blogs, or why do people write open source.
>
> Because they can :-)


I think it would be nice to make the results of labelling available to all
(competition included). This serves everyone better rather than endow one
company with an asset.


>> Microsoft wants more Vista testers
>
> Yup, good plan. More testers means that bugs will be found sooner, before
> the official release comes out. It's in everybody's best interest that as
> much are ironed out as possible, especially since there are people who
> refuse to patch/update.


Best wishes,

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
8:22am up 56 days 20:34, 10 users, load average: 0.17, 0.12, 0.42
http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:37:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
<newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

>__/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>
>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>
>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
>> and you might be one of them.
>>
>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>
>> <snip />
>
>More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images for
>Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated people for
>their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it encourages people to serve
>as test dummies. Why would people multi-billion corporations for free?

Because it's fun. Make sweeping the streets into a fun game instead of
deadly boring and you'll have clean streets.

>it's beyond me...
>
>Microsoft wants more Vista testers

I finally got IE7 going yesterday, after a few snafus. The sites I've
viewed so far through it seem ok, much to my chagrin. I was hoping for
a coding frenzy :-(

BB
--
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/nacht...lphin-box.html
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/arman...ttle-kiss.html
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/lladr...-topper-l.html

On 15 Sep 2006 05:27:58 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>> __/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>>
>>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>>
>>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid
>>> - and you might be one of them.
>>>
>>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>>
>>> <snip />
>>
>> More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images
>> for Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated
>> people for their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it
>> encourages people to serve as test dummies. Why would people
>> multi-billion corporations for free? it's beyond me...
>
>I did the labeling thing with Google Images a few times. It's fun.
>Although some of the images are way too small.
>
>As for free? If Google can label the images better, I would be very happy.
>AI is not (yet) going to work, I am afraid :-D.
>
>I use Image search a lot, and correctly labelled images are certainly
>worth my time. Your question is the same as: why post people on Usenet, or
>comment on blogs, or why do people write open source.
>
>Because they can :-)
>
>> Microsoft wants more Vista testers
>
>Yup, good plan. More testers means that bugs will be found sooner, before
>the official release comes out. It's in everybody's best interest that as
>much are ironed out as possible, especially since there are people who
>refuse to patch/update.

Some people are still on 98SE! Damn Luddites!!

BB
--
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/nacht...lphin-box.html
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/arman...ttle-kiss.html
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/lladr...-topper-l.html

__/ [ Big Bill ] on Friday 15 September 2006 09:17 \__

> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:37:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
> <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>>__/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>>
>>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>>
>>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
>>> and you might be one of them.
>>>
>>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>>
>>> <snip />
>>
>>More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images for
>>Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated people for
>>their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it encourages people to
>>serve as test dummies. Why would people multi-billion corporations for
>>free?
>
> Because it's fun. Make sweeping the streets into a fun game instead of
> deadly boring and you'll have clean streets.
>
>>it's beyond me...
>>
>>Microsoft wants more Vista testers
>
> I finally got IE7 going yesterday, after a few snafus. The sites I've
> viewed so far through it seem ok, much to my chagrin. I was hoping for
> a coding frenzy :-(

I thought IE7 requires XP at the least. Aren't you using Windows 98 SE? Which
reminds me: please upgrade as there are no longer patches available. Your
machine is a menace that could pollute the Web (us included) with SPAM and
DDOS attacks. Refusing to do so is just irresponsible. YMMV. The most modern
Linux distributions would run gracefully on hardware which is Windows
98-compatible, in case you are willing to harness new skills with the
fastest growing platform.

Best wishes,

Roy

--
For governments that eavesdrop, here is a quick list of tags: Communism,
Hawaiian shirts, China, Suitcase, Martha Stewart, Encryption, Prison,
Stalin. Thanks for tuning in.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:58:20 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
<newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

>__/ [ Big Bill ] on Friday 15 September 2006 09:17 \__
>
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:37:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
>> <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>
>>>__/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>>>
>>>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>>>
>>>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
>>>> and you might be one of them.
>>>>
>>>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>>>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>>>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>>>
>>>> <snip />
>>>
>>>More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images for
>>>Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated people for
>>>their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it encourages people to
>>>serve as test dummies. Why would people multi-billion corporations for
>>>free?
>>
>> Because it's fun. Make sweeping the streets into a fun game instead of
>> deadly boring and you'll have clean streets.
>>
>>>it's beyond me...
>>>
>>>Microsoft wants more Vista testers
>>
>> I finally got IE7 going yesterday, after a few snafus. The sites I've
>> viewed so far through it seem ok, much to my chagrin. I was hoping for
>> a coding frenzy :-(
>
>I thought IE7 requires XP at the least. Aren't you using Windows 98 SE?

I have two machines, 98SE on my main machine and XPSP2 on what will
become my main machine.

> Which
>reminds me: please upgrade as there are no longer patches available.

There's been none for while. There is a version of 98SE that's been
worked on by furrowed-brow types that overcomes a lot of the problems
it's had (they say) that I may get around to upgrading to yet.

> Your
>machine is a menace that could pollute the Web (us included) with SPAM and
>DDOS attacks. Refusing to do so is just irresponsible.

DDOS attacks? SPAM? How? I'm using Sygate Personal so I should be ok.
I used Zone Alarm for years but that got into a scrap with something
and I ditched it for Sygate.

> YMMV. The most modern
>Linux distributions would run gracefully on hardware which is Windows
>98-compatible, in case you are willing to harness new skills with the
>fastest growing platform.

Would all the software be compatible too? I have tons of it.

I have to migrate over to XP as more and more software I use everyday
starts to need it. The CSE validators (linters, I know) no longer
support 98 so that's one reason. The music software I have supports it
less and less. So, reluctantly, it has to be done.

BB
--
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http://www.crystal-liaison.com/arman...ttle-kiss.html
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/lladr...-topper-l.html

Roy Schestowitz schreef:
> __/ [ Big Bill ] on Friday 15 September 2006 09:17 \__
>
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:37:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
>> <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>
>>> __/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>>>
>>>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>>>
>>>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
>>>> and you might be one of them.
>>>>
>>>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>>>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>>>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>>>
>>>> <snip />
>>> More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images for
>>> Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated people for
>>> their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it encourages people to
>>> serve as test dummies. Why would people multi-billion corporations for
>>> free?
>> Because it's fun. Make sweeping the streets into a fun game instead of
>> deadly boring and you'll have clean streets.
>>
>>> it's beyond me...
>>>
>>> Microsoft wants more Vista testers
>> I finally got IE7 going yesterday, after a few snafus. The sites I've
>> viewed so far through it seem ok, much to my chagrin. I was hoping for
>> a coding frenzy :-(
>
> I thought IE7 requires XP at the least. Aren't you using Windows 98 SE? Which
> reminds me: please upgrade as there are no longer patches available. Your
> machine is a menace that could pollute the Web (us included) with SPAM and
> DDOS attacks. Refusing to do so is just irresponsible. YMMV. The most modern
> Linux distributions would run gracefully on hardware which is Windows
> 98-compatible, in case you are willing to harness new skills with the
> fastest growing platform.

As far is i can remember, Win98 SE was the most secure, even more than
XP. And now it has become a system that less are using, chances are it
will become more secure in time. No virus maker that is respecting
him/herself will see it as an important target anymore.

And lets face it, since Linux aint used by the majority, it will be
targeted less. Once it has become large enough, there will be searched
for exploits and possible safety issues on a larger scale until it can
and will be abused.



--
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Css templates: http://vision2form.nl/websitedesign/css-templates.html

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:15:46 GMT, Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:58:20 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
><newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>>I thought IE7 requires XP at the least. Aren't you using Windows 98 SE?
>
>I have two machines, 98SE on my main machine and XPSP2 on what will
>become my main machine.
>
>> Which
>>reminds me: please upgrade as there are no longer patches available.
>
>There's been none for while. There is a version of 98SE that's been
>worked on by furrowed-brow types that overcomes a lot of the problems
>it's had (they say) that I may get around to upgrading to yet.

URL?

Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

> __/ [ John Bokma ] on Friday 15 September 2006 06:27 \__
>
>> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

[..]

>> I did the labeling thing with Google Images a few times. It's fun.
>> Although some of the images are way too small.
>
> Why not use captions and the alt attribute as they already do, at
> least in part? It can be trusted as much as an army of volunteers.

Because there are plenty of people out there who don't care about such
things, or have no idea about it, or the software they use doesn't allow
for it.

Furthermore there are people who do give images a caption etc., but it's
not the right one. Have a look at a photo album and you know what I mean.

Then there are pictures that are mislabelled for one reason or another. I
had a millipede photo, but it turned out to be a centipede.

>> As for free? If Google can label the images better, I would be very
>> happy. AI is not (yet) going to work, I am afraid :-D.
>
> For some images, you can get decent certainty.

Yes, for a very small subset. Maybe play the label game a few times, and
then you'll see what kind of images needs a label.

> I think it would be nice to make the results of labelling available to
> all (competition included). This serves everyone better rather than
> endow one company with an asset.

Google is a company out their to make money. Anything that gets them ahead
of the competition :-D.

--
John Need with SEO? Get started with a SEO report of your site:

--> http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-.html

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:02:52 GMT, John A.
<no.john@spammers.virg.iniaqu.ilter.allowed.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:15:46 GMT, Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:58:20 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
>><newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I thought IE7 requires XP at the least. Aren't you using Windows 98 SE?
>>
>>I have two machines, 98SE on my main machine and XPSP2 on what will
>>become my main machine.
>>
>>> Which
>>>reminds me: please upgrade as there are no longer patches available.
>>
>>There's been none for while. There is a version of 98SE that's been
>>worked on by furrowed-brow types that overcomes a lot of the problems
>>it's had (they say) that I may get around to upgrading to yet.
>
>URL?

Dunno, I lost it. It's on some forum.

BB
--
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On 15 Sep 2006 15:20:49 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>> __/ [ John Bokma ] on Friday 15 September 2006 06:27 \__
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>>> I did the labeling thing with Google Images a few times. It's fun.
>>> Although some of the images are way too small.
>>
>> Why not use captions and the alt attribute as they already do, at
>> least in part? It can be trusted as much as an army of volunteers.
>
>Because there are plenty of people out there who don't care about such
>things, or have no idea about it, or the software they use doesn't allow
>for it.
>
>Furthermore there are people who do give images a caption etc., but it's
>not the right one. Have a look at a photo album and you know what I mean.
>
>Then there are pictures that are mislabelled for one reason or another. I
>had a millipede photo, but it turned out to be a centipede.

Report to the dungeons...

BB
--
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http://www.crystal-liaison.com/arman...ttle-kiss.html
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__/ [ tonnie ] on Friday 15 September 2006 12:22 \__

> Roy Schestowitz schreef:
>> __/ [ Big Bill ] on Friday 15 September 2006 09:17 \__
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:37:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
>>> <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> __/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>>>>
>>>>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>>>>
>>>>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
>>>>> and you might be one of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>>>>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>>>>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip />
>>>> More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images
>>>> for Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated
>>>> people for their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it encourages
>>>> people to serve as test dummies. Why would people multi-billion
>>>> corporations for free?
>>> Because it's fun. Make sweeping the streets into a fun game instead of
>>> deadly boring and you'll have clean streets.
>>>
>>>> it's beyond me...
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft wants more Vista testers
>>> I finally got IE7 going yesterday, after a few snafus. The sites I've
>>> viewed so far through it seem ok, much to my chagrin. I was hoping for
>>> a coding frenzy :-(
>>
>> I thought IE7 requires XP at the least. Aren't you using Windows 98 SE?
>> Which reminds me: please upgrade as there are no longer patches available.
>> Your machine is a menace that could pollute the Web (us included) with
>> SPAM and DDOS attacks. Refusing to do so is just irresponsible. YMMV. The
>> most modern Linux distributions would run gracefully on hardware which is
>> Windows 98-compatible, in case you are willing to harness new skills with
>> the fastest growing platform.
>
> As far is i can remember, Win98 SE was the most secure, even more than
> XP. And now it has become a system that less are using, chances are it
> will become more secure in time. No virus maker that is respecting
> him/herself will see it as an important target anymore.
>
> And lets face it, since Linux aint used by the majority, it will be
> targeted less. Once it has become large enough, there will be searched
> for exploits and possible safety issues on a larger scale until it can
> and will be abused.

That's a widespread fallacy that is very convenient for Windows advocates to
use. Any security guru will tell you it is not true. See, for example, the
following:

The short life and hard times of a Linux virus

,----[ Quote ]
| For a Linux binary virus to infect executables, those executables must
| be writable by the user activating the virus. That is not likely to be
| the case. Chances are, the programs are owned by root and the user is
| running from a non-privileged account. Further, the less experienced
| the user, the lower the likelihood that he actually owns any
| executable programs. Therefore, the users who are the least savvy about
| such hazards are also the ones with the least fertile home directories
| for viruses.
|
| [...]
`----

http://librenix.com/?inode=21

I am not sure the above refers to memory allocation in GNU/Linux, which makes
memory buffer overflow exploits almost impossible. Windows was built as a
single-user O/S from the ground up, so it lacks the solid absis
(pseudo-multiuser does not ). Jim Allchin said Windows needs 60% of its
code to be rewritten, for a reason.

Best wishes,

Roy

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Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:

> On 15 Sep 2006 15:20:49 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

[..]

>>Then there are pictures that are mislabelled for one reason or
>>another. I had a millipede photo, but it turned out to be a centipede.
>
> Report to the dungeons...

:-D I fixed that one fast enough. But I still have "toads" that are
actually frogs :-D.

--
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Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:02:52 GMT, John A.
> <no.john@spammers.virg.iniaqu.ilter.allowed.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:15:46 GMT, Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk>
>>wrote:

[..]

>>>There's been none for while. There is a version of 98SE that's been
>>>worked on by furrowed-brow types that overcomes a lot of the problems
>>>it's had (they say) that I may get around to upgrading to yet.
>>
>>URL?
>
> Dunno, I lost it. It's on some forum.

Maybe next year you can switch to ReactOS:
http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/index.html

"ReactOS is an effort to create a Free Software replacement for Microsoft
Windows(TM) that is compatible with existing hardware and software!"

And at least they got this right: "The main reason of ReactOS is the
simple fact that some people, or especially companies, will -never- switch
to Unix."

"Please bear in mind that ReactOS 0.3.0 is still in alpha stage and is not
recommended for everyday use."

Anyway, if you want to check it out, either install it on a computer
that's not used a lot, or run it in vmware's player.

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Roy Schestowitz schreef:
> __/ [ tonnie ] on Friday 15 September 2006 12:22 \__
>
>> Roy Schestowitz schreef:
>>> __/ [ Big Bill ] on Friday 15 September 2006 09:17 \__
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:37:42 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
>>>> <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> __/ [ Paul ] on Thursday 14 September 2006 17:44 \__
>>>>>
>>>>>> From : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5336284.stm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Google has just taken on legions of new workers. None are being paid -
>>>>>> and you might be one of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since workplace computers were hooked up to the internet, office
>>>>>> workers have found more ways of wasting time at work, with e-mailed
>>>>>> jokes or videos of apparently-amusing accidents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip />
>>>>> More recently, Google unveiled a servcies wherein people label images
>>>>> for Google. Amazon has been doing something similar, but compensated
>>>>> people for their time. Microsoft does the same thing when it encourages
>>>>> people to serve as test dummies. Why would people multi-billion
>>>>> corporations for free?
>>>> Because it's fun. Make sweeping the streets into a fun game instead of
>>>> deadly boring and you'll have clean streets.
>>>>
>>>>> it's beyond me...
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft wants more Vista testers
>>>> I finally got IE7 going yesterday, after a few snafus. The sites I've
>>>> viewed so far through it seem ok, much to my chagrin. I was hoping for
>>>> a coding frenzy :-(
>>> I thought IE7 requires XP at the least. Aren't you using Windows 98 SE?
>>> Which reminds me: please upgrade as there are no longer patches available.
>>> Your machine is a menace that could pollute the Web (us included) with
>>> SPAM and DDOS attacks. Refusing to do so is just irresponsible. YMMV. The
>>> most modern Linux distributions would run gracefully on hardware which is
>>> Windows 98-compatible, in case you are willing to harness new skills with
>>> the fastest growing platform.
>> As far is i can remember, Win98 SE was the most secure, even more than
>> XP. And now it has become a system that less are using, chances are it
>> will become more secure in time. No virus maker that is respecting
>> him/herself will see it as an important target anymore.
>>
>> And lets face it, since Linux aint used by the majority, it will be
>> targeted less. Once it has become large enough, there will be searched
>> for exploits and possible safety issues on a larger scale until it can
>> and will be abused.
>
> That's a widespread fallacy that is very convenient for Windows advocates to
> use. Any security guru will tell you it is not true. See, for example, the
> following:
>
> The short life and hard times of a Linux virus
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | For a Linux binary virus to infect executables, those executables must
> | be writable by the user activating the virus. That is not likely to be
> | the case. Chances are, the programs are owned by root and the user is
> | running from a non-privileged account. Further, the less experienced
> | the user, the lower the likelihood that he actually owns any
> | executable programs. Therefore, the users who are the least savvy about
> | such hazards are also the ones with the least fertile home directories
> | for viruses.
> |
> | [...]
> `----
>
> http://librenix.com/?inode=21
>
> I am not sure the above refers to memory allocation in GNU/Linux, which makes
> memory buffer overflow exploits almost impossible. Windows was built as a
> single-user O/S from the ground up, so it lacks the solid absis
> (pseudo-multiuser does not ). Jim Allchin said Windows needs 60% of its
> code to be rewritten, for a reason.

I agree, to some point a linux based system is less vulnerable. But that
is not what i meant. Due to the fact that windows is now the major
system, it is attacked and searched for vulnerability's the most.

If it one day will be linux that is the most used system, then there
most certainly will be some one who finds a weak spot to use.

About spreading without knowing:

http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3307459975.html



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On 15 Sep 2006 15:52:13 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 15 Sep 2006 15:20:49 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>>>Then there are pictures that are mislabelled for one reason or
>>>another. I had a millipede photo, but it turned out to be a centipede.
>>
>> Report to the dungeons...
>
>:-D I fixed that one fast enough. But I still have "toads" that are
>actually frogs :-D.

*Both* dungeons...

BB
--
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On 15 Sep 2006 15:59:35 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:02:52 GMT, John A.
>> <no.john@spammers.virg.iniaqu.ilter.allowed.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:15:46 GMT, Big Bill <kruse@cityscape.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>>>>There's been none for while. There is a version of 98SE that's been
>>>>worked on by furrowed-brow types that overcomes a lot of the problems
>>>>it's had (they say) that I may get around to upgrading to yet.
>>>
>>>URL?
>>
>> Dunno, I lost it. It's on some forum.
>
>Maybe next year you can switch to ReactOS:
>http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/index.html
>
>"ReactOS is an effort to create a Free Software replacement for Microsoft
>Windows(TM) that is compatible with existing hardware and software!"
>
>And at least they got this right: "The main reason of ReactOS is the
>simple fact that some people, or especially companies, will -never- switch
>to Unix."
>
>"Please bear in mind that ReactOS 0.3.0 is still in alpha stage and is not
>recommended for everyday use."

Just like Windows then. Users won't know the difference.

BB
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