I think that the reason he asked the question is because he (like I)
read about losers being penalized for "hiding" text by making it the
same color as the background. Some robots will just ignore those.

The only bad side to removing underlines from text links (regardless of
how you do it) for aesthetic reasons, is that viewers might not be able
to distinguish the fact that it IS a link and therefore not click on it.

Big Bill wrote:
> >Does anyone know whether a link that looks like normal text is counted
> >as an invisible link.
>
> I wouldn't think so, not normally. This doesn't mean you can go
> covering your homage site to the Pope in covert links to hot pix of
> Kylie in her knickers though... for instance...
>
> BB

Billy, maybe you should look at what your insecure and unsure advice
(wouldn't think so, not normally) was - before you decide to criticize
what I wrote.

Billy, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things
I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response
were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational
thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.
I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

On 25 Aug 2006 09:20:48 -0700, "SEOwebMarket.com"
<webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

>I think that the reason he asked the question is because he (like I)
>read about losers being penalized for "hiding" text by making it the
>same color as the background. Some robots will just ignore those.

Can you not read you loser ?

The OP stated : Does anyone know whether a link that looks like normal
text is counted as an invisible link.

Did you notice the words "looks like normal text"

He was NOT on about making the actual link/hypertext invisible.


>The only bad side to removing underlines from text links (regardless of
>how you do it) for aesthetic reasons, is that viewers might not be able
>to distinguish the fact that it IS a link and therefore not click on it.

Only losers like you.
--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On 25 Aug 2006 09:20:48 -0700, "SEOwebMarket.com"
<webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

>I think that the reason he asked the question is because he (like I)
>read about losers being penalized for "hiding" text by making it the
>same color as the background. Some robots will just ignore those.

What does SEO mean to you ? Self Educated Onanist ?

Learn to read what the question is and not what you think it is.
--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On 25 Aug 2006 09:35:47 -0700, "SEOwebMarket.com"
<webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

>
>Big Bill wrote:
>> >Does anyone know whether a link that looks like normal text is counted
>> >as an invisible link.
>>
>> I wouldn't think so, not normally. This doesn't mean you can go
>> covering your homage site to the Pope in covert links to hot pix of
>> Kylie in her knickers though... for instance...
>>
>> BB
>
>Billy, maybe you should look at what your insecure and unsure advice
>(wouldn't think so, not normally)

One learns caution with experience. I try to stick with generalised
advice rather than solid assurances these days. Something you may not
live long enough to see the merit in, of course... :-)

BB
--

http://www.crystal-liaison.com/comfo...les/index.html
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/cryst...-new-york.html
http://www.kruse.co.uk/search-engine...n-firms-uk.htm

Big Bill wrote:
> On 25 Aug 2006 09:35:47 -0700, "SEOwebMarket.com"
> One learns caution with experience. I try to stick with generalised
> advice rather than solid assurances these days. Something you may not
> live long enough to see the merit in, of course... :-)

If you don't know = don't answer. Pointless chat (spam) is very
unproductive in a group like this. Please chat in private. Thanks in
advance from eveyone that uses this group.

"SEOwebMarket.com" <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> I think that the reason he asked the question is because he (like I)
> read about losers being penalized for "hiding" text by making it the
> same color as the background. Some robots will just ignore those.

If they do, it's probably limited to very specific and easy to detect
cases. (I had a hidden link for quite some time on my site to capture bad
bots, can't recall how I hid it though).

> The only bad side to removing underlines from text links (regardless of
> how you do it) for aesthetic reasons, is that viewers might not be able
> to distinguish the fact that it IS a link and therefore not click on it.

Depends a lot on the context, but yeah, some people only "see" links when
they are blue & underlined. But I am sure they will learn soon how links
might look on other sites.

--
John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Firefox RSS: http://johnbokma.com/firefox/rss-and...bookmarks.html

"Paul" <lamewolf2004[REMOVE]@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bk9ue2tmbu7k10jftk90m68to9ctcn4h00@4ax.com...
> On 25 Aug 2006 09:20:48 -0700, "SEOwebMarket.com"
> <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:
>
>>I think that the reason he asked the question is because he (like I)
>>read about losers being penalized for "hiding" text by making it the
>>same color as the background. Some robots will just ignore those.
>
> Can you not read you loser ?
>
> The OP stated : Does anyone know whether a link that looks like normal
> text is counted as an invisible link.
>
> Did you notice the words "looks like normal text"
>
> He was NOT on about making the actual link/hypertext invisible.

LOL!!! It just makes me laugh at times.


>>The only bad side to removing underlines from text links (regardless of
>>how you do it) for aesthetic reasons, is that viewers might not be able
>>to distinguish the fact that it IS a link and therefore not click on it.
>
> Only losers like you.

Now why just talk about having an underline? Links can be changed with the
type of font, different side, bold, italic, bold and italic, plus more, and
all this with a different background color other than the background of the
page. There are other ways of viewers knowing what a link is and isn't.
Which is why Paul is calling you a loser. There is nothing wrong with having
a link blending in with the text maybe as a caption of a thumbnail, viewers
would know that this is a link. Basically though it doesn't matter what the
OP is doing and why.

Now to answer the OP once again. The link is counted and weighed as a link
would be, whether it is hidden, invisible, camouflaged, or any other way you
can put in a link!

Stacey
--
Crafts - Directory - Your Online Crafting Source
http://www.ecraftsonline.net/
A New Focus In Web Marketing - Search Engine Optimization
http://jezsta.com

On 25 Aug 2006 10:00:52 -0700, "SEOwebMarket.com"
<webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

>
>Big Bill wrote:
>> On 25 Aug 2006 09:35:47 -0700, "SEOwebMarket.com"
>> One learns caution with experience. I try to stick with generalised
>> advice rather than solid assurances these days. Something you may not
>> live long enough to see the merit in, of course... :-)
>
>If you don't know = don't answer.

You do and you know jack.

> Pointless chat (spam)

Wrong.
Spam is not pointless chat. Learn what spam is.

> is very unproductive in a group like this.

No one is asking you to stay.

You better get off your mommy's PC before she gets back with your
happy meal.
--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"SEOwebMarket.com" <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote in message
news:1156522848.000672.192870@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>I think that the reason he asked the question is because he (like I)
> read about losers being penalized for "hiding" text by making it the
> same color as the background. Some robots will just ignore those.


Now, who are you referring this to? All in the thread? No quoting, makes you
even more unknowledgeable! The only way sometimes that someone gets turned
in for hidden links maybe is when a competitor turns them in. Also hidden
text and links within the same color as the background is child's play. I
suppose you don't know there are many other ways to hide text and links. But
then again, you don't quote very well either.:-) Now explain to me how a
robot is going to ignore the links for some of these other tricks. It isn't!
If using CSS for one of the few ways, the CSS would have to be crawled which
I doubt it would be. To the robot the background is white and the text is
black and the link colors are default colors also. John mentioned JavaScript
trick which would be another way.

Stacey
--
Crafts - Directory - Your Online Crafting Source
http://www.ecraftsonline.net/
A New Focus In Web Marketing - Search Engine Optimization
http://jezsta.com

"Jezsta Web Productions" <Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:

> Now why just talk about having an underline? Links can be changed with
> the type of font, different side, bold, italic, bold and italic, plus
> more, and all this with a different background color other than the
> background of the page. There are other ways of viewers knowing what a
> link is and isn't. Which is why Paul is calling you a loser. There is
> nothing wrong with having a link blending in with the text maybe as a
> caption of a thumbnail, viewers would know that this is a link.

My mom had quite a hard time getting that a blue underlined piece of text
is a link in MSN messenger, yet she was able to navigate my website (which
has brownish links) :-)

Like I already wrote, people have to learn what links are. And their first
site might very well *not* have blue underlined links. Once people
understand that a link can have any color, and can be underlined or not,
they soon get the idea of that if it looks different, it might be a link.
The context provides often enough clues.

Of course there are sites that do it very bad (they make normal text look
like links, for example by underlining and using the same color). But I
see those quite rarely.

--
John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Googlebot Stats: http://johnbokma.com/perl/googlebot-statistics.html

"John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
news:Xns982A7FC488486castleamber@130.133.1.4...
> "Jezsta Web Productions" <Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:
>
>> Now why just talk about having an underline? Links can be changed with
>> the type of font, different side, bold, italic, bold and italic, plus
>> more, and all this with a different background color other than the
>> background of the page. There are other ways of viewers knowing what a
>> link is and isn't. Which is why Paul is calling you a loser. There is
>> nothing wrong with having a link blending in with the text maybe as a
>> caption of a thumbnail, viewers would know that this is a link.
>
> My mom had quite a hard time getting that a blue underlined piece of text
> is a link in MSN messenger, yet she was able to navigate my website (which
> has brownish links) :-)

Probably because there was nothing to say click here.:-) People are
generally learning now your are right. No longer have to say, click on the
thumbnail to make a larger view etc. Not unless they have the mouse disabled
of course one can tell that it is a link, and most of us are learning to
have our hand constantly on the mouse while moving through a site, and then
one can see the links easily. I see nothing wrong with changing the style of
the links. It is the style of the person and their site. Most people do not
want a boring site with a white BG and black text with blue underlines
links. It is the individuality that makes a website and make the design
unique.:-)

> Like I already wrote, people have to learn what links are. And their first
> site might very well *not* have blue underlined links. Once people
> understand that a link can have any color, and can be underlined or not,
> they soon get the idea of that if it looks different, it might be a link.
> The context provides often enough clues.

Why of course. I am one that likes to veer from the norm.:-) I did itfrom my
first site on. But in no way does it mean that a link will be hidden at
times. To me at times it is just making it blend in nicer to the style of
the site.:-) If the OP really wants to hide a link there are other ways than
just changing the links to be same as the text.

> Of course there are sites that do it very bad (they make normal text look
> like links, for example by underlining and using the same color). But I
> see those quite rarely.

Yeah, lots of underlined text can be bad.:-)

Stacey
--
Crafts - Directory - Your Online Crafting Source
http://www.ecraftsonline.net/
A New Focus In Web Marketing - Search Engine Optimization
http://jezsta.com

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:52:38 +0200, "Jezsta Web Productions"
<Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:

>"John Bokma" <john@castleamber.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns982A7FC488486castleamber@130.133.1.4...
>> "Jezsta Web Productions" <Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Now why just talk about having an underline? Links can be changed with
>>> the type of font, different side, bold, italic, bold and italic, plus
>>> more, and all this with a different background color other than the
>>> background of the page. There are other ways of viewers knowing what a
>>> link is and isn't. Which is why Paul is calling you a loser. There is
>>> nothing wrong with having a link blending in with the text maybe as a
>>> caption of a thumbnail, viewers would know that this is a link.
>>
>> My mom had quite a hard time getting that a blue underlined piece of text
>> is a link in MSN messenger, yet she was able to navigate my website (which
>> has brownish links) :-)
>
>Probably because there was nothing to say click here.:-) People are
>generally learning now your are right. No longer have to say, click on the
>thumbnail to make a larger view etc.

All depends on your market. Mine covers schools as well as joe blog.
I find it useful [for them] if I had "click on the thumbnail to make a
larger view" sort of thing.

I had one person last night email me because she could not save any of
my backgrounds and even tried to import them via MS Word.
The mind boggles.

[...]


>Yeah, lots of underlined text can be bad.:-)

agreed.

>Stacey

plh
Paul

--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:00:52 +0200, SEOwebMarket.com
<webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote:

> If you don't know = don't answer.

Your best advice so far.

Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.ph-meter.info/pH-meter
http://www.terapia-kregoslupa.waw.pl

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:14:53 +0200, Jezsta Web Productions
<Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:

> If using CSS for one of the few ways, the CSS would have to be crawled
> which I doubt it would be.

Perhaps you have missed that one. Google crawled my css files in June.
Once. Thus it is possible that they are looking for hidden text/keyword
spamming/hidden links or something.

That's just to clarify, otherwise you are right

Best,
Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.ph-meter.info/pH-meter
http://www.terapia-kregoslupa.waw.pl

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:45:02 +0200, Borek
<m.borkowski@delete.chembuddy.these.com.parts> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:14:53 +0200, Jezsta Web Productions
><Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:
>
>> If using CSS for one of the few ways, the CSS would have to be crawled
>> which I doubt it would be.
>
>Perhaps you have missed that one. Google crawled my css files in June.
>Once. Thus it is possible that they are looking for hidden text/keyword
>spamming/hidden links or something.

They did my css too.
I do have hidden links, and they did not hurt my serps at all.
Then again, mine were not black hat hidden links.
plh
Paul


>That's just to clarify, otherwise you are right
>
>Best,
>Borek

--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Paul <lamewolf2004[REMOVE]@yahoo.com> wrote:

> All depends on your market. Mine covers schools as well as joe blog.
> I find it useful [for them] if I had "click on the thumbnail to make a
> larger view" sort of thing.

Yes, I use text with thumbnails, also because the visitor might see them
as just a few smaller images (e.g, see:
http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2006/07/0...e-volcano.html almost
at the bottom of that page)

> I had one person last night email me because she could not save any of
> my backgrounds and even tried to import them via MS Word.
> The mind boggles.

Was she angry at you? :-D.

--
John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Google Bar: http://johnbokma.com/firefox/google-...stomizing.html

"Borek" <m.borkowski@delete.chembuddy.these.com.parts> wrote in message
newsp.teurpcoe26l578@borek...
> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:14:53 +0200, Jezsta Web Productions
> <Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:
>
>> If using CSS for one of the few ways, the CSS would have to be crawled
>> which I doubt it would be.
>
> Perhaps you have missed that one. Google crawled my css files in June.
> Once. Thus it is possible that they are looking for hidden text/keyword
> spamming/hidden links or something.

I missed that. Hmm, I haven't had them check mine though. Maybe they are
just doing a random shot now.

> That's just to clarify, otherwise you are right

Thanks!

Stacey

--
Crafts - Directory - Your Online Crafting Source
http://www.ecraftsonline.net/
A New Focus In Web Marketing - Search Engine Optimization
http://jezsta.com

Borek <m.borkowski@delete.chembuddy.these.com.parts> wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:14:53 +0200, Jezsta Web Productions
> <Please-use-our-contact-form@jezsta.com> wrote:
>
>> If using CSS for one of the few ways, the CSS would have to be crawled
>> which I doubt it would be.
>
> Perhaps you have missed that one. Google crawled my css files in June.
> Once. Thus it is possible that they are looking for hidden text/keyword
> spamming/hidden links or something.
>
> That's just to clarify, otherwise you are right

Yup, seen it too (as could be guessed from my replies). However, I guess
they use it mostly for statistics for now (like: Did you know that "MS
Comic Sans" is the most used font?)

Some tricks one can do require parsing of the HTML and CSS and "render"
it, to see what is going to happen.

--
John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

Google Bar: http://johnbokma.com/firefox/google-...stomizing.html

On 25 Aug 2006 19:16:37 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:

>Paul <lamewolf2004[REMOVE]@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> All depends on your market. Mine covers schools as well as joe blog.
>> I find it useful [for them] if I had "click on the thumbnail to make a
>> larger view" sort of thing.
>
>Yes, I use text with thumbnails, also because the visitor might see them
>as just a few smaller images (e.g, see:
>http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2006/07/0...e-volcano.html almost
>at the bottom of that page)
>
>> I had one person last night email me because she could not save any of
>> my backgrounds and even tried to import them via MS Word.
>> The mind boggles.
>
>Was she angry at you? :-D.

No. Just dumb. :p
--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Jezsta Web Productions wrote:
> Why of course. I am one that likes to veer from the norm.:-) I did itfrom my
> first site on. But in no way does it mean that a link will be hidden at
> times. To me at times it is just making it blend in nicer to the style of
> the site.:-)

Just because "you can", doesn't always mean that you should. Think
about the use of flash or embedding plug-ins. Business is different
from high school; in business, it's much more important to be useful
than it is to look cool.

- Brett (www.SEOwebMarket.com)

Paul <lamewolf2004[REMOVE]@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 25 Aug 2006 19:16:37 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:


>>Was she angry at you? :-D.
>
> No. Just dumb. :p

:-D

--
John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

No Go: http://johnbokma.com/firefox/removin...earch-bar.html

> I'm not sure a robot would pick it up from the CSS, but I thought a
> competitor could file a complaint.
>
>

Is there a way to tell if a complaint has been filed against your site?

Vegas-kid

"SEOwebMarket.com" <webmail@seowebmarket.com> wrote in message
news:1156534592.023883.13470@b28g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Jezsta Web Productions wrote:
>> Why of course. I am one that likes to veer from the norm.:-) I did itfrom
>> my
>> first site on. But in no way does it mean that a link will be hidden at
>> times. To me at times it is just making it blend in nicer to the style of
>> the site.:-)
>
> Just because "you can", doesn't always mean that you should. Think
> about the use of flash or embedding plug-ins. Business is different
> from high school; in business, it's much more important to be useful
> than it is to look cool.

Actually, in business it is much more important to target the people and
their tastes who come to the site. If you are targeting teenagers with a
music site then yeah use loads of flash and music. Teens like lots of noise
and flashy backgrounds. For craft people they like some background music and
craft like sites that they sit and look at the homemade products for an hour
or so. Each site that targets different people should target their likes,
old women like different styles and looks than old men. Men and women
different in tastes with colors and what they like to see on a site.

I am not a young person and have been around here and there. I know what
teens like as I have some, I know what young adults like because I have them
also. I know what old women like as I have a Mother and a few Aunts. I know
what my husband likes to see and that is motorcycles, demolition, and
explosions(I am making a site to show these things). I do crafts and have
been to so many craft sites it isn't funny and I like them to be a certain
way also and not boring or I won't stay.

So in business you have to stay on top of things and know what the crowd
coming will be and what they like!

Stacey
--
Crafts - Directory - Your Online Crafting Source
http://www.ecraftsonline.net/
A New Focus In Web Marketing - Search Engine Optimization
http://jezsta.com

On 25 Aug 2006 13:28:04 -0700, "Vegas-real-estate-kid"
<derrick.wallner@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> I'm not sure a robot would pick it up from the CSS, but I thought a
>> competitor could file a complaint.
>>
>>
>
>Is there a way to tell if a complaint has been filed against your site?
>
>Vegas-kid

You mean by someone to Google? No, not really that I know of.

BB
--

http://www.crystal-liaison.com/comfo...les/index.html
http://www.crystal-liaison.com/cryst...-new-york.html
http://www.kruse.co.uk/search-engine...n-firms-uk.htm